But wouldn't even just being given the chance to deactivate the licenses (e.g. before a trip or leaving for vacation) a HUGE step forward? Now, I might be blind, but I don't really see any possible reason for not allowing it!
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I don't like the idea of dependence, of having to "report" to a company for my legitimate use of products for which I have paid thousands of €€, simply due to some twirps' unethical actions; especially every so often. However I did say that as a last resort I would perhaps(!) reluctantly agree to have my hand forced to "log-in", but only if all other avenues were exhausted, and only say once a year (so Cyril you also please read my posts better; I didn't reject that idea outright). And like I said there are issues to be discussed before an action like that is taken.
Did you agree to your cellular phone company being able to track you down anywhere you are, anytime they want? Second example: do you feel uncomfortable letting Microsoft verify the authenticity of your Windows copy every time you get the latest Windows update? Third example: do you feel annoyed by allowing your insurance company to send an inspector to visit your property whenever they require to ensure the insured assets faithfully mirror what your stated you were insuring? Last example: how do you feel about the dozens and dozens of cookies saved on your harddrive that allow all kind of marketing companies (including Yahoo, Google, Microsoft, Facebook, ....) to track what and where you browse, or even worse, what, where, when, who, and how you purchase?
A periodical "synchronization" of the eLicenser every two or three months to ensure it's still being used by the same user licenses were sold to should be a very minuscule measure to having to comply with, if that provided means for users to gain the ability not to lose thousands of USD/EUR invested in VSL licenses if something were to happen to your key.
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Exactly or even better. Since the software can be used to transfer licenses from one dongle to another, why not the ability to uploaded it on the website for secure storage? I could definitely make a habit of that. I'm sure many professionals, like myself, don't have their music computers connected to the Internet, but it would just be a matter of moving the dongle to a connected computer and just upload the license whilst for example traveling, holidays, etc. At least that would be one step in right direction...But wouldn't even just being given the chance to deactivate the licenses (e.g. before a trip or leaving for vacation) a HUGE step forward? Now, I might be blind, but I don't really see any possible reason for not allowing it!
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[quote user=]
Well, that's exactly my point. Softwares will always be cracked. In my business we sell music and electronic educational material (PDF) and we are well aware that a lot of people copy them, even though we have put password protection and take other measures, everything can be cracked. We don't worry too much (we know it's inevitable) and we are not going broke from it. I can't count how many people I know with a cracked Sibelius copy, and I know for a fact that Sibelius knows that. They accept it, because their business comes from professionals and schools, colleges, etc. Same goes for me in our business and we are not about to make our clients lives more difficult because of the bloody hackers....This is what people using cracked software are telling us paying costumers. So we get both the insults and the hassle of the key, isn't that great?
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This is a very first draft of some text that could be included in the criticism section of the VSL page on Wikipedia:
Avé Cesare
Morituri te salutante [;)] ( could not resist with the joke [H] 😉
May be you could give a few weeks to VSL to give them time to consult there lawier and to find a solution with Steinberg
Best
Cyril
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I have just found this about "private copy" for UK
(Reuters) - Britain will signal on Wednesday that it intends to legalize copying of CDs or DVDs onto digital music players or computers for personal use, a government source said on Tuesday.
The move was one of the recommendations made in a review of Britain's intellectual property framework carried out by Professor Ian Hargreaves earlier this year at the request of Prime Minister David Cameron.
Business Secretary Vince Cable will announce on Wednesday the government's response to Hargreaves' report.
Hargreaves, professor of digital economy at Cardiff School of Journalism, found that Britain's 300-year-old copyright laws were obstructing innovation and growth and said a shake-up could add nearly 8 billion pounds ($13 billion) to the economy.
Cable will signal the government will agree to Hargreaves' recommendation to legalize private copying or "format shifting" of legitimately-purchased copyright works, the source said.
The practice has already been legalized in European countries except for Britain, Ireland and Malta.
The change will mean a consumer may copy a CD they have bought onto another device such as their iPod or home computer.
It will not allow people to share content over the internet without copyright owners' permission, such as on file-sharing sites.
The government will also agree to another Hargreaves' recommendation to introduce an exception to copyright for parody, the source said.
This will make it legal for comedians to parody someone else's work without seeking permission from the copyright holder.
The government has not yet indicated what stance it will take on another Hargreaves' recommendation -- the introduction of a central digital copyright exchange where licenses in copyright could be bought and sold, helping simplify the way businesses purchase rights to material.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/08/02/us-britain-copyright-idUSTRE7715BP20110802
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@Gusfmm: Whether you meant any offense by your comment or not, I took some; I usually do when somebody describes what I say as 'nonsense'. I don't take any particular pleasure when I send someone to re-read my posts, on the contrary it takes time to respond to that person and type that suggestion out. However it saves a lot more time as I wouldn't have to type all this in this case. And verily, my comment about 'inferior quality' can be interpreted as having 'ethical' implications, and not even remote ones. When you duplicate/triplicate etc. something from a digital source to an analogue tape for someone else - not that that's ethical - you lose a lot of quality, therefore if that someone really admires the content will most likely go out and buy it. When it's offered to him on a digital plate however, he suddenly becomes lazy, parsimonious, idiotic...
No, I didn't agree to the cellular phone company being able to track me down anywhere I am anytime. No, I don't feel uncomfortable letting Microsoft verify the authenticity of my Windows copy every time I get the latest update for a) Microsoft is not obliged to update pirated copies of their products, b) this is not the same example as what is being said here, as with the Microsoft example it would be up to me whether to upgrade or not, whereas with the VSL products we are talking about verifying ourselves periodically in order to use the products and versions for which we have already paid. My insurance does not need to send someone periodically to visit me for any item I have insured that does not wear and tear during the passage of time. Of course they would have to do it with a home or a vehicle for example. Lastly, to the best of my ability and knowledge I clean my computer system daily from all such Internet garbage you mention that companies force-feed it. Anything else?
As far as the periodical synchronization of the eLicencer, why have it every 2-3 months? Why not daily, or even hourly? If your argument was the only consideration, why should we allow a pirate to finish even one track using our key at our expense?...
@Cyril: DBX? I'll keep that in mind. As far as my proposing something else, I propose that government agencies come down really hard on Internet piracy and prosecute for huge damages. Treat it as diligently as they would child pornography. Any street establishment that is cought selling illegal/stolen goods is immediately closed down and the proprietors not just prosecuted, but arrested! Why should that not apply to Internet illegal sites (some don't sell, they share but have some advertisements or subscription fees for quick downloads)? Anybody who helps with the proliferation of stolen goods has to shoulder the responsibility of their criminal actions; be it the server, the company that assists with the downloads, and certainly the troll that uploads / makes available the merchandise in the first place. Why should we continue to shoulder the responsibility collectively, go out of our way, be penalized (restricted) because the relevant government agencies don't take action, or because the government refuses to legislate properly in order to protect intellectual property as well as any other kind of property?
I would welcome the legal backup laws that you quoted (for personal use), if at the same time strict laws for abusers were to be passed - and enforced - concurrently. Finally, and in that mindset and vein, I would - again reluctantly - consider the annual ping to the mother company (let the thieving turd work for a few months with the stolen key, probably some chugga-chugga composter) if some contigencies were satisfactorily addressed, and apply pressure to the authorities to do the job we pay them to do!!
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I had a dream .......... Errikos comme back to earth
DBX ---->>> http://www.dbxpro.com/
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I have waited to buy any new VSL products since I saw this thread the first time. Now I'm closer than ever to make a new large VSL purchase and I'm curious if the guys on VSL have recognized this thread and if there is any progress in making it more safe for us customers to own a licence, or at least providing more options for me to prove I'm not a pirate.
I'd really need to buy the vienna cube full library, but if nothing has changed I'm still not sure I'm willing to take the risk.
I just want to add that I'm warning everyone I know about this this issue if they are planning to buy vsl-stuff.
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If you can afford to pay big bucks for the Cube than you can afford to insure it. Why would you pay tens of thousands of $$$$ for a new sports car and not bother about insuring it. It's the same thing with The Cube. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me not to insure it.
I find that here in the states it's atually rather difficult to find anybody to insure software. VSL is different because they will replace your software for 1/2 price. That's makes it easier to find insurance for their products because the insurance company doesn't have to pay full price to replace the software. I know my Homeowner's insurance will cover my VSL products in the event of a fire or if my dongle grows a pair of legs and walks away. However, if I lose my dongle on the road somewhere I'm S.O.L. (Sh!t Out of Luck). Therefore my poor dongle will never see the light of day. .AFAIK, if your dongle is damaged, you can send it to VSL and if they can verify the licenses on it then you just have to pay for another key. I could be wrong on that though.
Errikos touched on something when he mentioned the "chugga chugga composters" out there. VSL is in the unique position in that there are not a lot of musicians out there who use orchestral samples and it's just not worth it for a hacker to spend all of that time and effort trying to break a difficult code for something that has such a narrow market place. Who is he going to sell it to? He'll go for the easier target like EW or Symphobia and, as far as the Chugga Chugga chimps out there are concerned, East West is good enough for them.
Aside from insurance I don't know what the solution is. This log in every 60 to 90 days idea would be a pain in the A$$ for me so I'm not for that at all.
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My insurance is ONLY taking care of my dongle, not the licenses that are inside. They insure material NOT imaterial
SO IF CASE OF FIRE I WILL GET ONLY THE PRICE OF THE DONGLE
You better ask to your insurance a writing ! they are always saying yes yes and yes, but when it is time to pay the answer might be :
Sorry sir you have not understand we do not cover imaterial !
Best
Cyril
The most well known theives are the bankers and the insurers !
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SO IF CASE OF FIRE I WILL GET ONLY THE PRICE OF THE DONGLE
sir, please note that there is a difference between damage caused by fire, a robbery, a burglery and simply losing something ... i'm sure you would have some official paperwork after your house burned down ... in such a case just make sure your ViennaKey is mentioned in the respective documents.
and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds. -
@cm said:
sir, please note that there is a difference between damage caused by fire, a robbery, a burglery and simply losing something ... i'm sure you would have some official paperwork after your house burned down ... in such a case just make sure your ViennaKey is mentioned in the respective documents.
So you would accept an official e.g. police statement for robbery but not for loss? This does not absolutely hold from the point of view of the reasoning that you cannot reissue licenses for free since someone else could be using the old ones. There is much higher chance that someone else could be using the software in case the ViennaKey gets stolen rathern than lost. Should I cite your email regarding this topic or have I cited correct enough?
My ViennaKey "disappeared" on a train, it could also have been stolen as far as I know, good to know for next time.
Anyways, at least it looks like a step forward. What is the policy for stolen keys then? Can we have a bit of clear information for once?
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Hello Christian.
SO IF CASE OF FIRE I WILL GET ONLY THE PRICE OF THE DONGLE
sir, please note that there is a difference between damage caused by fire, a robbery, a burglery and simply losing something ... i'm sure you would have some official paperwork after your house burned down ... in such a case just make sure your ViennaKey is mentioned in the respective documents.
If the house is burn, burglery or if some one has took your dongle, the insurance will only give you the replacent of the dongle, not it's licenses
Are you working with your lawer to give us a solution that follow european laws ?
I dont know if you have noticed there are future user waiting for a solution to buy stuff from you
Best
Cyril
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You better ask to your insurance a writing ! they are always saying yes yes and yes, but when it is time to pay the answer might be :
Sorry sir you have not understand we do not cover imaterial !
Well I don't know how things are in your neck of the woods but here in the states when you purchase insurance, material immaterial, doesn't matter. You purchase insurance based on the value of the item(s) to be insured. Yes, the dongle itself is only worth about $40.00, I get it, but the licenses it contains increase that value. My insurance company wouldn't insure a $40.00 item anyway because the value is too small. I explained to them that the Vienna key is like a key to a car that can't be duplicated in any way and without the key the car is useless. They understood and said they have no problem insuring the licenses on the key under the condition that I don't travel with it. If I do, I'm on my own. If nothing else but the Vienna key disapeared, they won't cover it.
My homeowner's insurance covers loses of up to $50,000. Your everyday average shmuck thief wouldn't know what that little piece of plastic is and would be more interested in the computer it's attached to. He may even be inclined enough to remove it as he's unplugging everything. In the event that he does take everything I know that I'm covered.
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@jasensmith said:
My homeowner's insurance covers loses of up to $50,000. Your everyday average shmuck thief wouldn't know what that little piece of plastic is and would be more interested in the computer it's attached to. He may even be inclined enough to remove it as he's unplugging everything. In the event that he does take everything I know that I'm covered.
I have looked in Wiki about US, you are allowed to do private copies !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy
A lot of countries are paying a levy to allow private copy
So again VSL is NOT abiding US law
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private copying levy (also known as blank media tax or levy) is a government-mandated scheme in which a special tax or levy is charged on purchases of recordable media.
in german speaking europe it is widely known as *Urheberrechtsabgabe (URA)* and is also charged on photo-copiers, scanners, usb-sticks, CD-Rs, DVD-Rs, video-tapes, sometimes harddrives, ect.
VSL actually encourages you to make backup copies of your installer (or installed) files, especially if you downloaded them, at your convenience.
and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds. -
@cm said:
VSL actually encourages you to make backup copies of your installer (or installed) files, especially if you downloaded them, at your convenience.
so allow us to do a copy of the licenses too 😉
Are you working on finding a solution or do you don't care ?
Best
Cyril
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If VSL, EW, etc. decide to allow the simple copying of licences - thereby enabling inscrutable slime to begin proliferating their products, either by selling them short, or by simply sharing them, I will never buy anything else from these companies ever again! I was offered the full Pro Edition for free all those years ago and I declined that offer (others of course didn't...). Instead, I paid all those thousands of €€, when I could have accepted the full pirated library, and spent all that money on much needed hardware, sound-proofing the studio, etc.
I expect of these companies not only to protect themselves, but to also protect our investments in them and, within reason (i.e. without making us legitimate customers suffer unnecessarily), make it difficult/impossible for unethical competitors of ours to gain illicit advantages over us in the industry. If those people want to work with the same tools as I do, they will just have to pay for them! Otherwise, loose-security companies will be forcing at least my hand to balance things out.
