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  3. $5000 enough?

  • $5000 enough?

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    I need computer advice on buying a new computer (or computers) to run VI and Sonar. I have spent hours researching the posts here but the more I read, the more overwhelmed I am by the complexities. In spite of all the indepth info available, I'm still unable to sift through it all to answer my basic questions. Hopefully someone shed some light.

    A couple of years ago I configured a computer to run VI and Sonar.

    • Intel 6700 @2.67GHz
    • 4GB ram
    • XP Pro SP3 32bit
    • 3 HD drives (2.5T)
    • Audio: Motu 828 MKII
    • My first major concern is that there is no latency issue at all. 
    • My second concern is the ablity to sequence with moderate or reasonable amount of instruments.
    • Use Win7 64bit OS
    • Buy new audio interface(s)
    1. Should I buy 1 really good computer? (Vienna XCore 64 Composer http://www.adkproaudio.com/choosev.asp )
    2. Should I buy 2 computers? (Installing VI and Sonar on separate computers)
    3. Would a (DAW) laptop be powerful enough to operate Sonar?
    4. Is Sonar good to use? Is the "standard" something else?
    5. Is there other hardware or software that is highly recommended?

    SORRY for this long post but I don't want to leap into buying something without sound advice and this is the only place I know that would be objective.

    Thanks,

    Doug
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    Latency is a common problem everywhere, unfortunately... You can get audio interfaces that offer zero latency monitoring but that is only for recording purposes. If the main objective is sequencing, I would say don't worry about a great audio interface with lots of ins and outs. you just need one with maybe 2 inputs and 2 outputs, and these come cheap enough, then you got the 2 outs for each speaker, and then the two ins for recording if it needs to be done, have a look at simple and effective, try: http://www.dv247.com/search/2974/0/ProductPrice/Ascending/-/1/ which has a load of audio interfaces (scroll through to get more expensive ones). If you are a sonar fan and want to stick with sonar, this is a good option. Another option is to use a DAW that is good for sequencing, and I have found Cubase 5 the best out of all I have tried (pro tools, logic, studio one, sonar, cubase). If you have a Vienna or Steinberg key you can go onto the Steinberg website and trial a fully working copy of cubase 5 for a set time. If you like it, consider getting the Steinberg CI2 audio interface (which comes with Cubase AI5) and then get an upgrade from Cubase AI5 to either Cubase Studio 5 or Cubase 5. Then you have an audio inteface and a sequencing DAW which you can use. About the use of two computers, I reckon you could get away with using one computer to do everything, so long as it is a godo standard computer. As far as I know, windows 7 can run DAW software well and most music product software is now 64bit operational so that shouldn't be so much of an issue. As the projects are orchestral, you would undoubtedly have a lot of tracks to work with, so it can get rather CPU intensive if you use lots of VST instruments in the project, however i'm sure if you get a PC with an i7 procesor and plenty of RAM, you should be able to do the projects without too much trouble. It all depends on how many tracks you want to sequence in one go, ie are you going to load one instrument for one violin, or one instrument for a group of violins or the full strings? It depends on what you need to load which will determine the overall CPU use. I would say most good computers could handle at least 60 tracks of sequenced material, with each track having an instrument loaded on it, maybe more for the new i5/i7 processors. If you then need another computer to add more processing power, get VSL Ensemble Pro if you don't have it already, and you can network this between computers (works extremely well, as I use it to run any big CPU hog instruments on). So my general advice would be: Get a cracking computer with the latest gizmos, a simple audio interface and DAW, and if you need to upgrade or network you can just get VSL Ensemble Pro and another laptop/computer and it will all work fine, you got plenty of room to grow your setup this way. Hope this helps your situation.
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    Hey there Doug, I'm sorry to hear about your previous disappointment. It really must have been a right pain! My suggestions to you for your next purchase stem from my experiences working in a Hi-Tech department of a music store for 5 years and having been a computer music user for over 12 years. I think you are right in wanting to put a decent sum of money into a new computer for your son, so my biggest recommendation is for you to look at buying the best MacPro you can for your money. Firstly, make sure you put a lot of RAM in there, 16GB (32GB is very expensive), and select the 8 Core if you can. You're only other bottleneck in terms of performance will be your Hard Drive set up. That is something I am learning a lot about right now (I purchased the Super Package a few days ago and have been learning and reading a lot more than I knew in the first place ever since). So, on that front you could buy something like Sonnet's E4P (eSATA card) and one of their RAID hard drives (I'm sure the Fusion F2 will be great) to install your VSL on. I think all that lot would easily eat up your budget, but MacPro's are pretty much all you'll see in high end facilities (be it recording studio, post production or home studio), and that's for good reason too. They are stable, very powerful, and reliable. As for a DAW I recommend Logic Pro. Oh, you will of course need an Audio Interface. Something by M-Audio, MOTU, TCElectronic or Apogee will do fine (just pick as many ins and outs as he's likely to need, they all offer basic - stereo in/out interfaces). Controller keyboard wise, it'll depend on whether he'll want weighted (like a piano), semi-weighted (in between) or non-weighted (like a synthesizer keyboard). I think the feel of M-Audio controller keyboards are great, as are Yamaha's. For that I'd suggest getting down to your local music store and trying a few out. It is important as it's the tactile/musical interface, and it'll be used a lot! If you want to check out any reviews of any audio gear a British magazine Sound on Sound is fantastic. They are thorough and impartial. Paul
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    Paul, I don't mean to disagree, but I'm going to. [;)]

    Buying a Mac Pro would be one of the worst options, as the OP wants to run Sonar, which is Windows only (AFAIK). Not only would that mean buying a machine with a 30-40% hike in price, but it would have to run Windows, which would sort of defeat the object of buying a Mac.

    I think that the best option is to get a well specced PC from a reputable DAW builder. I know who to suggest int the UK, but maybe VSL or people on the Sonar forum could suggest somewhere where th OP lives.

    DG
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    I appreciate everyone's input. Thanks! It helps me consider things I might otherwise overlook.

    I have (timpani roll...) made a decision.  I'm taking the "TURN-KEY" approach and am buying from a company that specifically builds Vienna systems. I've begun to dialogue with them about all of my concerns and needs and I feel comfortable they know their business. Plus, they will install all my Vienna, Sonar, East-West, Native Instruments & any hardware I want to add, plus test everything before shipping it.

    I'm going with 1 computer: a dedicated Vienna Win7 64bit machine. It's best to stick with an OS that my son knows...especially since he starts university the same time he will be taking delivery of his new toy.

    For around $5,000 I get a i7 960 3.2GHz quad core, 24GB ram, 5 TBs of drives, noise inhibited, rack-mount computer plus I will have the guarantee that it will sequence at least a modest orchestral arrangement. Latency was a BIG concern for me and they assure me that the latency will be undetectable between 3-4ms.   I loaded up on the ram to make sure I got the biggest bang for my buck.  (Hey...if the US economy is going down the tubes...I might as well spend it now before all my stocks get wiped out)

    I am also recommed to buy RME audio interface. So between that, plus buying a new keyboard and a bunch of accessories, that puts me over $8,000.  Not bad for a  good starter computer. If he outgrows it in the next couple of years, then we'll know our money was well spent and we'll be glad to buy him something bigger and better. After he graduates, then he's on his own!

    Thanks again for your help.
    Doug
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    Hey there DG, The OP did (see question 4) ask whether Sonar was the best option, so I gave my opinion. It looks like he's going to get his hands on a fantastic machine by the looks of it. Paul