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I´m wondering, if it is more realistic not only to lower the reverb-volume but also to shorten the reverb time for closer instruments.
On one hand the lower volume kind of results in a shorter reverb, cause due to the louder reverb of other instruments, I am able to hear them longer. But on the other hand I doubt, that a longer and a louder reverb are the same.
Hello Felix
Taking the real situation:
The faiding-out-time of the reverb sound doesn't depend on your distance to the player of an instrument in a church.
The whole story of close or far depends (beside other things) on the balance of direct sound (dry) and the "wet" sound - as you mentioned above.
Now, if the dry sound is louder for closer instruments than the wet one you may believe that the wet tail get shorter and shorter the more you decrease this wet part...
Nevetheless, that's the therory. It counts the ilusion you can create... So if shorter reverbs help to get a closer ilusion...
Beat Kaufmann
Hey Beat, at the moment I´m just working with the dry/wet balance, but my thought was this:
The sound of a close instruments takes a longer time to hit the wall. Besides a delayed reverb the sound won´t make it to the next wall and "ends" earlier than the sound of an instrument in the back sitting closer to a wall.
My question is, if the reverb sound realy "ends" or if it is still existent, but not recognizable due to the low volume.
If I picture a ball, beeing hit against a wall, it stops somwhere after hitting two walls. But if I hit it from very close to the wall (which would be the position of a far instrument, being positioned close to a wall), it might touch three or four walls before stopping.
Hi Felix
Hey Beat, at the moment I´m just working with the dry/wet balance, but my thought was this:
The sound of a close instruments takes a longer time to hit the wall.
Besides a delayed reverb the sound won´t make it to the next wall and
"ends" earlier than the sound of an instrument in the back sitting
closer to a wall.
If you take the next wall - closer instruments do have a longer predelay on the one hand. On the other hand closer instruments do have the shortest predelays via floor...
Nevertheless: Try to make experiences with the predelay-effect.
Predelay = the time delay between the dry signal and the start of the wet signal. The reverb can start with the very first echo - not earlier.
In case of observing the delays from the next wall we can have some ms. (~ 3ms/m > 10m ~ 33ms).
Taking the floor reflections we have maybe 10ms. Instruments which are farther away from us do have not a big difference between the wet and the dry signal.
Nevertheless: Increasing the predelay can give us the impression of a larger room = farther away?
Predelays whith values above 40 - 50 ms produce more an echo than the effect we are looking for.
Take into account that the sound of farther instruments has lost its highest frequencies a bit as well.So support the the "far away" also by cutting the high frequencies a bit.
My question is, if the reverb sound realy "ends" or if it is still existent, but not recognizable due to the low volume.
If I picture a ball, beeing hit against a wall, it stops somwhere after hitting two walls. But if I hit it from very close to the wall (which would be the position of a far instrument, being positioned close to a wall), it might touch three or four walls before stopping.
This is also correct. The question is now: What do you want to change:
This is a very complex story in the end. That's why MIR needs to do so much calculations. Also important: the playing direction of each instrument...
I recommend to make a draw of a possible virtual stage with possible walls and a possible listening position.
Also draw in the first indirect reflections which could reach the listener. Are there big differences?
...
Maybe it is difficult enough to simulate a certain listener position with some common parameters.
Considering things such as "the brass is playing in front of the backwall", "the winds are playing on a red carpet..." is even more difficult.
Best
Beat
