in my opinion the awards for best score have developed in the last couple of years to a travesty. if you want to win, don´t be original. write something that eveyone has heard a 1000 times already. the winners at the mtv music awards are more likely to be daring concerning their style.

@aural said:

in my opinion the awards for best score have developed in the last couple of years to a travesty.

I started to loose faith back in 2005 when John Williams had two nominations, one for Munich and one for Memoirs of a Geisha.  Both I felt were good but Memoirs featuring Yo-Yo Ma on Cello and Itzhak Perlman on Violin was fabulous -- only to loose to Broke Back Mountain.

Go figure.......

@aural said:

in my opinion the awards for best score have developed in the last couple of years to a travesty.

I started to loose faith back in 2005 when John Williams had two nominations, one for Munich and one for Memoirs of a Geisha.  Both I felt were good but Memoirs featuring Yo-Yo Ma on Cello and Itzhak Perlman on Violin was fabulous -- only to loose to Broke Back Mountain.

Go figure.......

And the winner for Best Original Song was... "It's Hard Out Here for a Pimp."  I couldn't think of a more brilliant intellectual contribution to western civilized culture then, "it's Hard Out Here for a Pimp." 

But seriously, I think perhaps the academy has finally realized that nobody's watching anymore, so they started nominating works that don't offend particular groups of people through radical activism or insult the intelligence of the masses like they did in the past.  

@jasensmith said:

 ... nominating works that don't ... insult the intelligence of the masses like they did in the past.  

hm... i wonder how you can offend something that is not there in the masses 😊

i mean: the usual joetheplumbermoviesgoer will watch anything anyway... besides: the "ordinary" audience has not the slightest clue about music. they don´t even recognize there is one.

and i wonder how good writing can be offensive...

@aural said:

the "ordinary" audience has not the slightest clue about music. they don´t even recognize there is one.

and i wonder how good writing can be offensive...

Interesting point Aural,

I know from personal experience that what your saying about the audience (we'll say general) has not the slightest clue about the music.  I believe many take it for granted and the truth be known, many emotions that may be felt while watching  a movie, are many times, the result of the music more so than the story line itself.

You might find this a bit strange, but while watching the Titanic with my wife at the theater when it was first released, I found myself getting emotional during some of the scenes.  I'd look over at her while wiping the tear from my eyes, and she was motionless.  I thought "what's up with me?".  A few weeks later I purchased the soundtrack and while listening to it in the car on the way to work, the tears began again.

I now believe that it was certain passages of the score being played had more influence on bringing out my emotions than the storyline itself.  Ever since then, I find myself paying more attention to the score many times than the storyline itself.  I've also noticed that if a particular trailer has a great track playing, I will be more likely to watch the movie than something that is cheesy.  But that's just me......

@jasensmith said:

But seriously, I think perhaps the academy has finally realized that nobody's watching anymore...

I hear people make comments like this a lot.  I assume you're probably being hyperbolic, but it should still be pointed out that over 30 million people watched this year.  Sure, that's down a fair amount from the peak years (and up a bit from last year), but it will still be one of the top rated shows of the year.

Personally, I think people tend to romanticize Oscar's past.  The show has almost always been pretty dull, and the awards have often missed the mark in all categories.

I'm glad Giacchino won and thought his score was way more interesting and original than the other nominees I've heard.  I can't think of many that can match his versatility.

Maybe i'm wrong but why is the winner for the original score is always a blockbuster movie, never a "no name" movie : very bad or strange BUT the soundtrack is wonderful ...

[:)]

@aural said:

and i wonder how good writing can be offensive...

Surely you're not referring to, "It's Hard Out There for a Pimp?"  Let me be clear, I have nothing against Hip Hop music, in fact I think artists like Alicea Keys and Beyonce are very talented and deserve recognition, but IMO the Academy chose this song purely for political reasons.  It was a case of, 'we don't have enough Hip Hop music on our winner's list and we want to be more diverse.'  In reality, it should never have been nominated.

This is the problem I've had with the Academy Awards in the past and I think that's why the ratings for the show have dropped so much.  What I meant when I said, "insult the intelligence of the masses" is I think the masses are smart enough to know that the Academy was acknowledging works that filled some kind of political correctness void instead of recognizing the best talent so the masses just got tired of the same ol' same ol.' 

And what was with all of the political activism in the past?  People who live and work in fantasyland getting up on a stage and bagging their political drums about the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, the fight against the big greedy corporations, gay rights, Save the Shrimp, etc.  Whether one agrees or disagrees with these positions they have no place at an Academy Awards Show.  Now I don't know how Europeans feel about it but the Academy Awards Show is as much an integral part of Americana as the Superbowl, apple pie and the World Series.  It's an American cultural icon and this proud card carrying member of the usual Joetheplumbermovie goer doesn't want to see the show tarnished with political correctness and political commentary.  There is a time and place for that and it's not at the Academy Awards Show.

For the record, I did watch some of this year's show but only because my wife is Peruvian and The Academy Awards is a big deal in Peru especially since one of their own was nominated for Best Foriegn Film.  It's ironic how the show is huge in other parts of the world but kind of just hum drum here in the states. I'm wondering how many of those 30 million viewers were international.  Also, for the record, I did enjoy the parts of the show that I saw.  It looks like the academy is at a turning point.  Maybe I'll start watching again.

@SyQuEsT said:

Maybe i'm wrong but why is the winner for the original score is always a blockbuster movie, never a "no name" movie : very bad or strange BUT the soundtrack is wonderful ...

Looking at the full list of winners, I wouldn't agree with that.  Would you call Atonement, Babel, Frida, Finding Neverland, or The Red Violin "blockbusters"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_Award_for_Best_Original_Score

@jasensmith said:

I'm wondering how many of those 30 million viewers were international.

I was wrong, this year was around 42 million, and that's only counting US viewers, I don't know if there are any international figures.  That's about the middle of the pack for ratings over the past 20 years.

@jasensmith said:

People who live and work in fantasyland getting up on a stage and bagging their political drums about the war in Iraq, the war in Afghanistan, the fight against the big greedy corporations, gay rights, Save the Shrimp, etc.

Not sure how many people are aware but the news around here (Detroit) has been buzzing about a lawsuit against the makers of "The Hurt Locker".  Geoffrey Fieger is representing West Virginian Master Sgt. Jeffrey Sarver claiming that he was the real-life character who the story was about.  Screenwriter Mark Boal was an embedded report for 30 days with Sgt. Sarver and took the real-life experiences and wrote a script which then became the movie.  The movie even used Sgt. Sarver's code name.  Sgt. Sarver wasn't consulted or given any recognition or compensation, which has become the basis for the lawsuit.  You can read more about it by clicking the link below......

http://www.clickondetroit.com/entertainment/22727775/detail.html

@aural said:

and i wonder how good writing can be offensive...

Surely you're not referring to, "It's Hard Out There for a Pimp?" 

oh no... maybe we were talking about different things or i misread your initial post. i was talking about good writing that does not get recognized.

the award for this particular tune rather was a desperate attempt of the academy to be contemporary and to suck up to the 15-year-old bourgoise "kidz" who indulge in ghetto-romanticism...

@aural said:

and i wonder how good writing can be offensive...

Surely you're not referring to, "It's Hard Out There for a Pimp?" 

oh no... maybe we were talking about different things or i misread your initial post. i was talking about good writing that does not get recognized.

the award for this particular tune rather was a desperate attempt of the academy to be contemporary and to suck up to the 15-year-old bourgoise "kidz" who indulge in ghetto-romanticism...

Oh! ok...   I must admit I was a little worried there for a second LOL! 

It looks like we have more common ground on this issue than I thought, Aural,  because I agree with your "kidz" statement 100%.  

I know this thread has moved on, but I just wanted to toss my agreement in with Chuck Green that the "Titanic" score was memorable.  It seemed to go perfectly with the sea, with just the right amount of melancholy to produce that emotional response.

I kind of miss the soundtracks from the nineties.  John Williams--"Angelas Ashes" Hans Zimmer--"Beyond Rangoon"  John Barry "Dances with Wolves" James Newton Howard-- "Snow Falling on Cedars."  There was a fresh lyricism & vibrancy then.  These days there seems more reliance on the big hit chase scene cues, which often do sound the same, at least to my ears.  I've bought a lot of soundtracks in the past five or six years that I only listen to a few times.  I realize you can't really appreciate one's work if you don't really give it a fair listen, but so often there seems nothing that pulls me in and gets me to keep playing.

I'll take a listen to "Up."  Any other recommendations out there?

All best, Tom

Hi Tom,

Actually, the other night I happened to catch Flyboys on Cable.  I've seen the movie before but this time the score caught my ear.  I downloaded it off if iTunes.  You may want to check that one out.  The score is written by Trevor Robin.  He has some other great scores out there as well.

Richard Struass wrote some of the first movie scores with his heavy drive to create 'program music;' ironically before there were any soundtracks on movies. Indeed his scoring techniques are closely studied by the likes of John Williams and others.

Movies are usually made in committee style of functions with the majority reports winning out or the person with the most rank pulling things in their direction. I've often wondered how much control directors really have over the final cut of the movie; seems to me that the process goes something like this:

Director decides, after consulation with the arts committee and the production committee, (which committee is often just one person), which scenes require a musical backdrop and then requests the mood to be set, the style and the thickness or thiness of the music, one insturment, chamber group or Straussian dimensions to the max.

Interestingly, one of my favorite movie scores is Stanley Kubrick's '2001, A Space Odessy' which uses only music that was previously composed, a favorite technique of Kubrick.  I wonder if any one has some statistics on how many times that music has been quoted in other contexts (Strauss's fanfare to Thus Spake Zarathustra) where the implications are either Mocking or serious. In other words, Kubrick wanted his audience to notice it:

• Richard Strauss, Also Sprach Zarathustra
• Johann Strauss, The Blue Danube Waltz
• György Ligeti, Atmospheres, Lux Aeterna, and Requiem for Soprano, Mezzo-Soprano, Two Mixed Choirs and Orchestra
• Aram Khatchaturian, Gayane Ballet Suite

I wonder that in the process of trying to make orchestral cues sound contemporary, (nothing against contemporary music - I love all kinds and styles), that the ability to produce various orchestral colors (of which only an orchestra can provide) is lost?  If you listen to the the top 40 on American Radio and focus on the instrumental arrangements, most are very basic and simple with the vocals leading the way.  That seems to be what is selling now.  Using a similar approach with an orchestra arrangement, (a few tutti strikes and a bunch of drum hits),  I believe limits the possibilities and in the process, much is lost in the end product.  Just my opinion.....

2001 is an interesting case.  The existing classical music was originally a temp score and then the film was fully scored by Alex North but they decided to just keep the temp score.  North's unused score was recorded years later and I believe it's still available.

@mike connelly said:

2001 is an interesting case.  The existing classical music was originally a temp score and then the film was fully scored by Alex North but they decided to just keep the temp score.  North's unused score was recorded years later and I believe it's still available.

Just curious Mike, does a composer usually get paid for his time if the score in the end is not used in a movie?  I assume that would be driven by a contract but is their a norm?