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  4. Upgrade nightmare to Win7

  • Upgrade nightmare to Win7

    S
    S

    Hi

    re Win7 Sibelius

    Having resisted upgrading to Win7, having heard such good things (and that Sibelius will support in Win7 64 but not XP64) I have taken the plunge

    But I am now having all sorts of Audio glitches - scores which played back perfectly (big scores with quite a few plugs) in XP64 are now hardly playing back at all. The windows CPU monitor says ~20 - 30%!

    Playing in stand alone VE is fine. And smaller scores are Ok in Sib.

    But these big scores just don't work

    All hardware is the same. I'm sure I didn't do anything with buffer sizes in XP64 (long time ago) I think it just "worked" out of the box

    Any advice would be great

    Steve

    Win7 64 Prof., 2 x Xeon E5320, 16GB, Edirol UA-25, VE
  • C
    C

    Did you update all of your drivers?  Soundcard, Video, motherboard etc.?  Windows 7 is no doubt superior.  I moved up from XP64 to Windows 7 with no issues at all, but I also made sure I had all the latest drivers.  I also assume you're using the latest versions of the Vienna Software?

    Do you have all of the latest Sibelius updates?

    If you have all of the above, try adjusting your latency on your soundcard and see if you can get the clicks to go away.  Also make sure you don't have any Anti-Virus etc type software running.

    Maestro2be
  • S
    S

    Hi Maestro2be

    Thanks for trying to help

    Yup made sure I have all the latest drivers and versions of all software...

    Putting the latency to max means the clicks go away for very light scoring but as soon as the rest of the orch join in - click city

    Steve
  • D
    D

     Is this the same machine as the XP64 one?

    Have you checked the DPC?

    Have you disabled the onboard LAN?

    DG
  • S
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    Hi DG

    Same machine as XP64

    Sorry for being stupid but what is the DPC?
  • C
    C

    Do you by chance have a DAW?  You have no signature details so no idea what else you have to work with.  Was wondering if you had a DAW you could import a midi file into?  If so, you could export your Sibelius project to a single midi file, then import it to a DAW and then see if that DAW responds the same.

    It still sounds to me like an audio driver issue.  A hard drive not able to keep up would cause this too but if it worked in XP64 with the same setup then you can pretty much throw that out the window.

    Try turning off any options in Sibelius such as "reverb" etc to increase performance until you get this figured out.  I stopped using Sibelius a while ago as my DAW.  Now I only use it for scores because it was to much of a CPU hog.  That and it was the worst product I ever used to  record in live parts.  It would always miss notes, screw up passages etc.

    Maestro2be
  • S
    S

    DG

    Ran the DPC whilst playing the score in question and the DPC still says that it should be able to handle real time streaming - max latency wasrecorded as 654 micro secs.

    Steve
  • S
    S

    I have been on the phone to Sibelius and looked over the net and I can't find any more advice

    I usually see far more knowledgable advice coming from this forum than elsewhere, so...

    Is anyone else here running Win7 64bit with Sibelius (and VE of course!) - have I forgotten a tweak or something?? Perhaps the sound card driver is dodgy?

    I can't believe that despite all info to the contrary, Win7 64 is less efficient than Xp 64!! But at the moment it seems that way and that to go back to being able to play back my big scores I will have to re install XP!

    Any more advice gratefully received

    Thanks

    Steve

    Win7 64 Prof., 2 x Xeon E5320, 16GB, Edirol UA-25, VE, Altiverb etc etc
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    C

    Well I do run Sibelius 6 also on this machine and it runs flawlessly.  Sorry I can't be any more helpful.  I wouldn't wait around for forums to get back to you.  Write to VSL support team in an email.  That was you get an actual support technician looking at your problems.

    Maestro2be
  • D
    D

    So, what is latency setting set to for the UA-25?

    What audio driver are you using in Sibelius?

    I know in Sonar I have a choice of WDM or ASIO.

    WDM is useless and results in clicks/pops.

    I had an FA-66 in the past and it was rock solid.

    I think this might be a settings issue in the UA-25's control

    panel and driver setting in Sibelius.

    I hope that helps.

    DM
  • S
    S

    Thanks DM

    Using ASIO

    I have tried all latency settings (knowing that sometimes too much is also bad!) and latencies/buffer sizes give glitches

    I even tried the Max setting  - giving latency of 0.2 seconds!!! - and that still had glitches

    Steve

    Steve
  • D
    D

    How about disabling the NIC?

    I have a wireless NIC and if I leave it on during any a/v playback it

    always causes clicks and pops.

    Lastly, do you have another audio interface laying around or

    can you borrow one from a friend to see if its just bad Win7

    UA25 drivers?

    DM
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    S
    Hello, I have the exact same problems. Large scores cuts of samples and pops and clicks even though I have 8GB ram and it's at least 3 of them availible when the entire sample library is loaded. I have the latest Sib-update, a dedicated SATA-disc for the library, using ASIO with an ESI1010-soundcard. I'm afraid the problem might not be VSL: Sibelius 6 has huge amounts of flaws when it comes to playback and stability. I had to switch from my Macbook as main working enviroment since Sib6 crashed all the time even though I reinstalled the OS several times. The playback is also unstable there, even with Sibelius own library. At this point, I have no idea what to do with my setup, this just doesn't work.
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hello Snattack!

    These kind of problems with big arrangements may have various reasons.
    Maybe your CPU is overloaded. If this is the case, raising the buffer size of your audio hardware driver may help.

    When lots of instruments get streamed at the same time, maybe your hard drive can't come up. In this case it may help to divide your sample content on two hard disks. Don't forget to update your Directory Manager after that.

    Best regards,
    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
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    Although you have 8GB of RAM are you running 64 or 32bit W7 - if the latter then your still only able to access just over 3GB of RAM.

    What do you mean by large scores? I have 64bit and 12GB of Ram that just about copes with 30 staves/instruments each with around 10 articulations roughly half of which are performance patches. Although I'm also running MIR. Whatever your problem it's not SIB6 which works flawlessly for a lot of peaople running VSL.

    What CPU are you using?
  • S
    S

    I think the issue for those of us moving from XP to Win7 (rather than Vista) is that Win7 is not as resource efficient as XP. As Andy pointed out: not a great surprise given the 7 year gap between OSs and therefore the assumed Computer capability.  Essentially I was working on what for XP time was an extremely powerful machine but for Win7 era just a decent workstation.

    It IS still strange that the issue appears to be with disc streaming rather than CPU - well certainly in my case.  The CPU does not get beyond 40-50%. And changing buffer to even the highest makes zero difference (all of this a summary of my posts above)

    What has improved the situation for me  - although nowhere near up to the same level as on XP - is to stripe two discs (I did so on Win7 rather than at the BIOS level but I may go back and do that in case I get any better improvement). This has meant that rather than before, changing buffer size actually makes a difference so I would suggest that the disc streaming was the issue.

    I would recommend trying that  - after all discs are extremely cheap now.

    It's just odd that Win7 does not seem to stream from disc as effectively as Xp!

    Steve
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    Hello, I'm using a brand new Intel i5 processor, Windows 7 x64 and 8gb of ram. When reading the resource manager and playing back the score at the same time, it's not using nearly the bandwith the harddrive can take, but I'll move the library to another disk and try anyway. When it comes to ram, when the large patch is loaded, it's still 3,5GB left. I've tried all avalible buffer sizes. Also, today the problem showed up on a string ensemble piece, which consists of 5 staves, so I guess the problem isn't the score size. The only conclusion to this so far is that the sound card might be the problem. I have the latest drivers. What soundcards are you people using? When it comes to Sibelius and playback, I haven't yet met many people for whom it works "flawlessly". It's filled with bugs and bad performance, but this is another discussion.
  • S
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    Just another thought - are you using altiverb and do the clicks happen on rits and accels? 
  • S
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    last edited
    last edited

    @stevetrumpet said:

    Just another thought - are you using altiverb and do the clicks happen on rits and accels? 

    Hi, No, not using Altiverb and there's no obvious pattern for when it occures.
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Did you watch the CPU meter of Vienna Ensemble or in the Task Manager?

    Do you have high CPU usage when the problems occur?

    Could it be that another program that's running in the background takes CPU power from time to time?

    Vienna Symphonic Library