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  • After Rain (soprano sax demo)

    I had the pleasure of doing this time a demo for soprano sax and string orchestra(+harp). Again, as might been noticed, these demos are for the VSL download instruments.

    [url=http://www.guybacos.com/audio/After%20Rain.mp3] After Rain[/url]

    As always, your comments are appreciated. :)

    Thanks!

    Guy


  • As usual top composition and production.

    I like the slightly impressionistic feel were everybody would expect a jazzy thing in a soprano sax demo.

    The solo instrument is not in any way piercing or annoying like often heard in soprano sax pieces.

    Probably a lot of Vsl users would be grateful if you ever want to open some of your recipes how to get that string sound so convincingly across. It sounds like some  chamber strings mixed in plus some exiter from vienna suite......


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    @Guy said:

    I had the pleasure of doing this time a demo for soprano sax and string orchestra(+harp). Again, as might been noticed, these demos are for the VSL download instruments.

    After Rain

    As always, your comments are appreciated. 😊

    Thanks!

    Guy

    Hello Guy

    You are asking for comments...

    It's a nice and lovely piece. By the way you show the articulations of the soprano saxophone. Congratulations!

    Nevertheless, I would try to improve two things a bit:

    1. I believe I'm not wrong when I say that Windplayers rather make diminuendos with long notes than crescendos.

    Maybe it is related to the respiration.

    When I listen to your piece I notice a lot of crescendos with long notes but almost never diminuendos.

    So as a Saxophone player I have a bit a bad feeling after 2 minutes with more or less always crescendos on longer notes.

    Maybe these crescendos also bothers me a bit because they often are  "increase the gain" crescendos and not those with more overtones, as I knowing them.

    2. Sometimes I miss a bit the "breathing cycles" behind the phrases of music. Could be that you didn't take this into account until now.

    The Sopranosax can take a lot of breath... as a normal cycle:  5-7s  hhh > 5-7s > hhh of course there are 10s or 15s possible as well.

    Some of the Wind players also have mastered "the endles playing" (didgeridoo)... but it sounds more natural, to stop the play after some seconds for a little hhh.[:P]

    Guy: I hope you can take my comment the right way. Once I learned some important things from you (about "how to play the piano" in connection with samples).

    So I hope that I can return two tips this way. [H]

    Have a nice weekend

    Beat


    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • Hi Beat,

    With all due respect Beat, I must disagree with all 3 of your comments. I rarely disagree with criticisms, but in this case I do.

    Just to be sure, I played the sax track alone.

    1. On just about each note there is a diminuendo that comes towards the end of the note, when there is no dim it's because the cresc is meant to connect with the next note. On many long notes there are as much dim as cresc. Beat, you must also keep in mind, that the downloadable lib is more limited in terms of natural dynamics compared to the complete lib, so sometimes I do have to work around what's available.  I like how the dynamics work in this piece so it's not something I would change.

    2. The remark about the dynamic is pretty unfair Beat. I did the maximum dynamics possible through natural dynamic patches, such as pfp, and velocity fader slider. Once I reached the maximum expression using these, I may tweak a few notes here and there with vol fader to smoothen out places. I just looked at the vol graphic to confirm what I just said. I'm also very careful to not exceed a certain point. Didn't bother me at all. Could you be confusing timbre with vol?

    3. When listening to the sax alone I noticed plenty of breathing points, I make sure of that as I'm writing, a fair criticism might be that in places they are too short, I will grant you that. But I think you may miss it more than others, cause nobody else was bothered by that, on other forums.  Also, the long sustained string notes may often cover the breathing marks which gives you the impression that there are none! 


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    @veetguitar said:

    As usual top composition and production.

    I like the slightly impressionistic feel were everybody would expect a jazzy thing in a soprano sax demo.

    The solo instrument is not in any way piercing or annoying like often heard in soprano sax pieces.

    Probably a lot of Vsl users would be grateful if you ever want to open some of your recipes how to get that string sound so convincingly across. It sounds like some  chamber strings mixed in plus some exiter from vienna suite......

    Thanks veetguitar.

    Yes, and herb brought to my attention that originally this is what the sax was meant to play.

    As for the strings I hope to soon work on a video to explain many things and personal tricks. But I do combinations of all the strings, and balance each track separately, some parts sound more full, others chamber, and combinations of those, also a bit of solo. I do add some exciter, but all that does is makes it richer and gives it some brilliance but doesn't affect the expression, so I keep that for the end. One very important thing is to make sure each part sings from beginning to end just like if i was the main melody.


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    @Guy said:

    Hi Beat,

    With all due respect Beat, I must disagree with all 3 of your comments. I rarely disagree with criticisms, but in this case I do.

    ...

    Hello my dear

    I have really nothing against the piece you've done. Further it's up to you to produce this demo how you like it.

    Maybe I couldn't make clear enough what I mean with "crescendo". Nearly each longer note (sustain) starts with this uuuaaaaaa in the demo.

    And that's not very natural in my opinion.

    I've tried to cut them out so that you can make it out better what I mean: Example

    Beat


    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • Beat, I'm not going to argue with your theoretical arguments and I know exactly what you are referring to as far as cresc., and I already explained the limitations and despite this you are coming back with more arguments. Funny that on my end all I've had was praise for this piece on all forums, people are impressed by the expression I was able to get from the sax. I'm sorry if it does not work with you or correspond with your ideals. I like it very much the way it is, everybody that has heard it loved it, so I'm happy with it.


  • [H]

    Beat


    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
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    Hi,

    Sorry for joining this conversation very late, but I only recently entered the VSL world. As a learning wind instrument player, I'm sorry to feel I have to contradict Beat on the crescendo/diminuendo issue:

    @Beat Kaufmann said:

    I believe I'm not wrong when I say that Windplayers rather make diminuendos with long notes than crescendos.

    Diminuendo for lack of breath is not a good practice, at least not in the way I was trained. One should take all the breath that is needed for the phrase to play, and play that phrase in a musically meaningful way. Notes should neither be "inflated", nor "deflated" for lack of breath control. They should always be part of the musical arc, where dynamics become more or less intense depending on the note position in the phrase, or a particular nuance. A note should go to the next note, as part of the same phrase, without dying for lack of breath.

    I'm exposed to at least three saxophone schools, all interpreting phrasing in a slightly different way. The French school (Mule) is somewhat more concerned with rhythm and phrase structure, so phrases tend to be broken more often. There is the German/American school (Raschèr), derived from classical clarinet, where melody has to be smooth and very operatic, with unbroken lines and all round timbral evolution. And there is a growing Italian school, whose phrasing is similarly derived from opera singing, and each note is part of a line and must remain full until the end of the phrase.

    I feel Guy's demo is correct under this aspect (and, as usually, musically very interesting and very fitting the type of instrument).

    Paolo


  • This piece fades out - why is that?  On the section I heard up to 1:06 it sounds completely natural and an excellent composition and performance, very exotic sounding which fits in well with the timbre of the soprano sax which has always seemed very exotic to me. 


  • William, maybe this was only a draft. The final version is however the only demo for the soprano sax instrument.

    Paolo


  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on