Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
Forum Statistics

188,328 users have contributed to 42,591 threads and 256,456 posts.

In the past 24 hours, we have 1 new thread(s), 15 new post(s) and 36 new user(s).

  1. Home
  2. Sample Libraries
  3. Vienna Instruments Libraries
  4. Map Control Settings for all instruments

  • Map Control Settings for all instruments

    I
    I

    Is there a way to define the map control settings for all instruments (like a default template that gets applied to all instruments)? It would be extremely tedious to have to go through all the instruments and manually define a controller for velocity crossfade, attack control etc.

    If there is no way to do this, then please consider this a feature request. I can't believe this hasn't come up before (or have I not seen that thread). If the map control settings at least defaulted to some unused midi control values I could remap the faders on my keyboard to fit instead.

    Tom
  • D
    D
    last edited
    last edited

    @inwinterhesleeps said:

    Is there a way to define the map control settings for all instruments (like a default template that gets applied to all instruments)? It would be extremely tedious to have to go through all the instruments and manually define a controller for velocity crossfade, attack control etc.

    If there is no way to do this, then please consider this a feature request. I can't believe this hasn't come up before (or have I not seen that thread). If the map control settings at least defaulted to some unused midi control values I could remap the faders on my keyboard to fit instead.

    Tom

     

     This feature has been around for nearly 5 years......!

    1. Set up an empty VI how you like it, with all controllers and cells
    2. Save it as a preset called startup in the root of your Custom Data folder

    Now every time you load a VI this will be the default Preset. However, be warned that you mustn't use Velocity xFade on Keyboard instruments, so don't forget to have an empty Preset in your folder as well, if you choose to use the startup feature.

    DG
  • I
    I

    Hi DG,

    I have done as you described, however, upon loading a matrix into the VEPro server the settings default to the factory settings.
  • D
    D

    Firstly, you can't load a matrix in the server, so I think it's best that we go through this one step at a time, to make sure that we agree on the terminology..

    1. Have you set up your Preset?
    2. Have you checked that when you load the Preset, it works as you wish?
    3. Startup is the last step of the puzzle.

    DG
  • I
    I

    Ok. Here's what I'm trying to do:

    I would like some way to make the assignment of the velocity crossfade parameter to be midi control 12 (for example) for all instruments that are loaded into my orchestral template in VEPro 64bit. I would like to have some way to do this without having to go into each of the 60 odd matrices individually and changing this setting.

    You suggest that this is possible, however when I created an empty setting with vel-crossfade set to midi control 12 (using VI standalone) and called it startup it did not have any effect.

    When I start up VI standalone the settings are standard. When I load the startup preset it does change vel-xfade to midi ctrl 12. The startup preset is in the correct folder for VSL custom data (directory manager points to the correct folder also).

    What could be going wrong I wonder?

    Cheers,

    Tom
  • D
    D

     OK, it's obviously still not 100% clear so I'll try to explain again.

    These settings are not stored within the matrices. They are stored within the Vienna Instruments Preset system. Therefore in order to get this to work you need to load your matrices into the Startup Preset. You can't change these settings en masse in retrospect. You need to:

    1. Create your Preset and save it
    2. Load your matrices and save that Instrument
    3. Load a new Instrument with your startup preset
    4. Ass matrices to this one for the next Instrument
    5. Save it etc.etc.etc.

    As far as getting your default Preset to be the startup one, it needs to be in the correct folder. I can't explain in more detail now, as I have no time to check, but will post back later today.

    DG
  • I
    I

    This is not what I'm looking for then.

    I was hoping there was a way to set up controller values for the map page in the instruments globally so I don't have to rebuild my entire template yet again.

    So... this would be a pretty important feature request then. I'm surprised this hasn't come up before. Are people just resigning themselves to the laborious process of rebuilding their template each time they want to make such changes?

    We should be able to:

    1. Design our own templates which load as the default instrument when you create a new VI in VEPro.

    2. Retrospectively edit sections such as the map control page on a global scale (for that viframe).

    3. Copy and paste the whole map control page from one instrument to another.

    Right now it seems the only way to achieve what I want to do is to go through each of the 60 odd instruments in my VEPro template and manually edit the fields on the map control page that I wish to have assigned. Very tedious indeed, especially if you want to assign a midi controller to several of the functions like attack, vel-xfade switch, filter etc.

    Or does anyone knowledgeable on VEPro have a different solution?
  • I
    I

    DG

    The manual for VI makes no mention of this "startup" feature.

    Where are you getting this information from?

    Even if this feature worked, it would not solve my problem as I'm working within VEPro.
  • C
    C
    Yeah, I tried this 'startup' thing and it didn't work. I, too, would like to know how to make settings other than choice of instrument patches become default settings that stick.
  • A
    A
    last edited
    last edited

    @inwinterhesleeps said:

    ... We should be able to:

    1. Design our own templates which load as the default instrument when you create a new VI in VEPro.

    2. Retrospectively edit sections such as the map control page on a global scale (for that viframe).

    3. Copy and paste the whole map control page from one instrument to another.

     

     

    Hello Mr. Wintersleeper 😉,

    according to my knowledge and to what I did in the past your wish-points 1. and 3. can be accomplished with DG's suggestion - as long as your instrument-setups consist of patches or matrices.

    Here's a step-by-step instruction:

    1. Start VEpro with a new session. There should be the master bus and the instrument 1 bus available.

    2. set up instrument 1's controllers the way you'd like to have them set for all your instruments.

    3. save that setup as a preset ("startup").

    4. Load one of your patches or matrices into that instrument (e.g. "first violins")

    5. Save that patch/ matrix as a preset, now called "first violins"

    6. Repeat steps 4. and 5.  for your other patches/ matrices

    7. for future use load the newly created presets into VEpro

    Did that help?

    Sebastian

    P.S.:

    I would like seeing your wish "2. Retrospectively edit sections such as the map control page on a global scale (for that viframe)." realised by the VSL-team.
  • I
    I

    Thanks, Sebastian, for the step by step tutorial. The VI interface is not very clear when it come to this stuff. The save option is merely a disk icon. No dialog as to what you are saving. So I'm assuming when the Patch button is selected it will save a Patch and when the Matrix button is selected it will save a Matrix. Perhaps they should have named Patch an articulation instead of throwing another term into the pot.

    In any case, I can see no way to load up my custom patches or matrices using VEPro. There is simply no option for it. All I get is the factory content. I have set up a custom directory with Directory Manager, but none of what I save in there seems accessible.

    There must be something obvious I'm doing wrong. I am quite comfortable with technology, however, I find VSL software to suffer from programmers' syndrome. I'm sure it's all crystal clear and obvious to the programmers themselves, but there has not been enough consultation with an interface designer.

    So you are saying that when you load VEPro the (blank) instrument has your customised startup settings already loaded? Because that's what DG implied.

    First of all I have to solve that problem with not getting access to my custom data.
  • D
    D
    last edited
    last edited

    @Another User said:

    So you are saying that when you load VEPro the (blank) instrument has your customised startup settings already loaded? Because that's what DG implied.

     

    This is how startup works. However, if VE Pro can't "see" the VSL Custom Data folder, then it won't work.

    Regarding your original point (now that I understand that it is retrospective assigning that you want) I agree that it would be a good option.

    However, you should be able to assign all faders (and on/off buttons) on the Perform page for 60 Instruments in about 10 minutes (or less, if you're fast), so at least it's not like building a template from scratch again.

    DG
  • A
    A
    last edited
    last edited

     

    @inwinterhesleeps said:

    First of all I have to solve that problem with not getting access to my custom data.

     

    Hello Wintersleeper,

    how about:

    1. Start VEpro

    2. Rename "instrument 1" into "Woops that worked!"

    3. Save this setup as a preset called "Find me"

    4. Search for the preset-file "Find me"

    5. Copy your custom patches and matrices into the folder where you found "Find me"

    6. And let me know whether you can load your patches and matrices into VEpro now! [:)]

    Sebastian
  • I
    I

    I have solved the problem with custom data. Although the path looked correct, resetting it and then restarting finally did the trick. So now the startup file works for me too. I'd like to now where the documentation for this is. I could find no reference to it in either the VI or the VEPro manuals.

    Now I am faced with either rebuilding my orchestral template with this new startup patch or rebuilding the template by going through and changing the map settings for each instrument individually. Both are a pain and could be avoided if there was a way to load or paste the map settings (or the startup patch settings for that matter) into an already established instrument within VEPro.

    I think there is a strong case for requesting this as a future feature of VI/VEPro.

    Who supports this idea?

    Tom
  • D
    D
    last edited
    last edited

    @inwinterhesleeps said:

    however, I find VSL software to suffer from programmers' syndrome.

    And I share your feeling: I'm dreaming of a day when music software editors will realise that users don't all have a Masters in Computer Technology, and when we - composers - will be able to write a violin line without having to care about which midi controller triggers what parameter in the 3rd column of the 4th matrice of the 12th keyswitch that you can select by pressing D#0 at least 5 ticks before the beginning of the note and change simultaneously CC15 and CC83 to values 64 and 128 respectively.

    When I look at the different options available on the market, all I see is a huge amount of recordings and patches that all claim to be more flexible, more lyrical, more whatever. I'm under the impression that music software editors forget that their target should be musicians, not computer geeks.

    Today, it seems that a composer who doesn't work with a whole crew behind him/her needs to be fluent in computer technology including the different platforms and OS, music technology including recording techniques and midi workflow, music production tools and methods, composition, orchestration, arrangement for all styles of music… And I'm not even talking about what takes a great 75% of my time: the marketing and business aspect of my job.

    I used to develop software for financial institutes and investment banks before I decided to follow my dream and focus on composing music. My users at that time would have found unacceptable to work with tools so complicated that they prevented them from focussing on their job. The keywords were user-friendly, performance, stability. I sometimes had to step back from what I was doing and analyse the situation to see that the initial design had maybe come to an end and - rather than adding another functionality, another patch and some cosmetic improvement - a more sustainable, more outstanding and more user-friendly, better solution necessitated a new approach and a new design.

    It isn't difficult to see that so much can be done to improve and ease the workflow of a composer who uses a virtual orchestra. I believe that a "scoring platform" that would include a simple yet powerful scoring software with integrated production tools (and VSL are amongst the best with their VSL Suite and MIR) and quality samples (here again, VSL are the #1) is the way to go. In other words, an orchestra in a box! There's definitely a market for that as nothing as such exists.

    Fellow composer, simply imagine if you could select your strings from a list of instruments, place them on a virtual 3D stage, write all sorts of notes and articulations in this beautifully crafted software, and the software itself would actually do all the technical work for you, load the right patches and link them to the right notes. Do you want less vibrato? Do you want it more expressive? Then just write it on your score, the software will do it for you.
    Instead of adding the powerpan, the eq, the compressor and reverb to your timpani, just place the instrument on the virtual stage and then turn the expression knobs to your taste. The software will make it darker or more distant for you. Yes: real words!!
    Do you want the trumpets brighter and more triumphant? Well, why not specify it directly on the score? It will trigger some automation that adjust the expression settings for you.
    Do you really want to have access to more control? Then manually edit the CC and individual plugins in the advanced panel, just as you have to do it today. But in this case, I think that less is definitely more!

    No, the list isn't endless. It just about common sense. I compare the current products to the modules of a modular synthesiser. We - composers - needs to plug the patches between all the modules. It's archaic, laborious, although rarely something great and unexpected happens. So we need to understand what all the modules do. That's surely interesting, but it doesn't help me get that track out of the door to meet my deadline for the pitch. And so much progress has been done since the Moog Modular, hasn't it?

    That's to say, I'd like to think of my work in terms of melody and harmony, but at the moment, it's more about hexadecimal and binary.