Sibelius Dynamics Question

[zentrumsounds]

Okay I'm slowly getting to the point of actually writing some music with the VSL/Sibelius combo. However I have a (possibly stupid) question.

In the Optimizing Sibelius pdf it states that the default manner of controlling dynamics is CC11. It also states that certain Sound Sets deliberately do not use this method for obvious reasons. However on putting dynamic markings into my score whilst using instruments such as Solo Strings or Winds I am finding that they are only sending velocity date and not CC11 (or CC7 for that matter). Now I think I know why this is happening (I can fix it by changing the Playback library assignments right). But I get the impression that the default setting is to use the CC values. In fact I get the impression that these SoundSets themselves should somehow be ensuring that this works automatically. I'm doing something wrong right?

[andi]

Hello Zentrumsounds!

You are right, that it is an entry in the sound set, if CC11 and/or Velocity data is responsible for the dynamics.

Is there something not working as you expected?

Best,
Andi

[zentrumsounds]

Sorry for delay in getting back to you Andi (work work)

Yes things don't seem to be working as expected. Whilst I'm using the soundsets for the VSL instruments I have (i.e. the one in the 'needful things' zone), and the dynamics using CC11 work fine for the Brass and Woodwind, they appear to have no effect on the Strings. And I'm not sure why.

Also, do you think it acceptable to combine both expression slider and Vel XF to react to CC11 and may this indeed be the norm (regarding realistic dynamic range etc.)

Thanks, J

[andi]

Hello Jürgen!

Do you have the latest version of the sound sets? The presets for the Orchestral Strings sound set have been updated only recently, because there was a bug. Maybe using the latest version will solve your problem.

There is no problem in using both Vel Xfade and Expression with CC11 at the same time, but you have to be aware that you are doubling the dynamic range by that.

Best,
Andi

[zentrumsounds]

Hi Andi,

Actually the Strings in this case are the Solo Strings. However I'm getting closer to discovering the issue. What seems to be happening is that the Violin 1 in my score (I am using two versions of the Solo Violin and renamed Violin 1 & Violin 2) is triggering Violin 2 in my VEPro setup. I can get it to trigger Violin 1 but only by setting the MIDI out in the mixer to the channel it is on in VEPro (in this case MIDI Channel 1). However if I do this, whilst successfully forcing the stave to trigger the correct VI I lose the Soundset mapping. So, really the question is how do I get the two violins to trigger the correct instruments such that the mixer is still set to '(auto)' and thereby triggers the CC changes eetc. (this particular aspect of Sibelius still leaves me somewhat baffled).

I guess one solution to the dual use of Vel Xfade and Expression would be to enable the XY grid in the PERFORM/Map Control area to be a little more flexible such that one could manipulate the start and end-points of the graph. Whilst the shape can be changed wouldn't it be great to set the graph a little flatter so that only a limited range of CC11 is interpreted by the expression slider and the full range interpreted by the Xfade slider. I think this would solve the fact that at present the xfade alone does not quite offer a full and realistic dynamic range reflective of the real world instrumental behavior.

Thanks, J

[andi]

Hi Jürgen!

When you use the same instrument more than once, sometimes the channel assignment of Sibelius is a bit weird. You can try the following: Go to the Sibelius mixer and reassign the sound ID (third line in the mixer) of the instrument which doesn't switch correctly. If you use the same sound ID more than once, be careful to assign it in the right order: for example, the first line with "strings.violin" for the first violin and the second line with "strings.violin" for the second violin.

There is another way to enhance the dynamic range of patches. In the Control Edit/Edit Cell section of the Vienna Instruments there is a value called DYN.R. With this value you can set the dynamic range of any given articulation.

Best,
Andi

[zentrumsounds]

Hi Andi,

Not sure if you've ever seen that youtube video of a guy throwing his monitor off his desk in frustration ; )

Anyway I'm not there yet but appear to have tried everything. I've deleted my violin staves, reentered one of these into the score and this then correctly assigns itself to Violin 1. Then I add a second one. For a moment it seems that this to is happy to be assigned to Violin 2. Then however both of them decide that they prefer Violin 2 VI and poor Violin 1 is left alone. I've also tried your suggestion but this doesn't appear to change the situation at all.

not sure where this Dyn.R is. In my Control Edit page all I have is H-Span, V-Span and A/B select. Am I missing something?

Thanks (again!) J

[andi]

It never happened to me, that both ways you have described failed to solve this problem. Did you assign the Solo Violin program twice in the Manual Sound Sets section?
If you want to, you can send me your score and the Playback configuration (xml file and folder) and I will take a look at it.

The Edit Cell button (where you find the DYN.R. setting) is on the left of the Control Edit page.

Best,
Andi

[zentrumsounds]

Aha! I see the Edit CELL button now! Once I was blind and no I can see!

So, regarding the main question, I have now sorted it out. I was looking at all the difficult places and failed to see that in VEPRo I'd forgotten to map the MIDI correctly! So sorry and so silly! (I'd presumed it was the same problem I'd had before and was surprised that the solutions I used before were not fixing the issue!)

Many Thanks!

J

[gdugan2]

@andi said:

Do you have the latest version of the sound sets? The presets for the Orchestral Strings sound set have been updated only recently, because there was a bug. 

Could you please clarify this statement?  When I go to the Sibelius Sound Sets page, the latest version for the Vienna Ensemble Special Edition is 2009-03-30.  Is there a newer update? 

 

Thank you.

[andi]

Hello Gary!

I was talking about the presets for the Orchestral strings sound set. The Special Edition sound set has not changed.
For the latest version of the sound sets, I recommend checking the Overview/Needful Things section of our User Area.

Best,
Andi