It's the actual limit of MIDI channels and VE Pro instances. You can have 8 VE Pro instances per machine and each can have 16 MIDI channels, therefore 8*16=128.
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Okay, I'm realizing that what I'm realizing is real. Thanks timkiel. I just started another thread, if anyone wants to discuss this limit within Logic vis-a-vis VE PRO local hosting.
All VSL had to do was put a simple sentence in the manual or on their website: Up to 128 channels for local hosting. And if it was anywhere, my apologies for missing it.
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@DG said:
However, this is not the case for anyone using AU, because due to the cr*p spec that Apple has kindly provided, you can only get 128 MIDI tracks and 128 OutputsWhere are you seeing this limitation? I am not aware of any such limit. Logic Express does have track limitations (255) but Logic Pro does not.
You haven't noticed, that's all. [;)]
It has nothing to do with number of tracks. With AU you can only get 16 MIDI channels per instance. With VST3 you can get many, many more.
DG
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@DG said:
You haven't noticed, that's all.
It has nothing to do with number of tracks. With AU you can only get 16 MIDI channels per instance. With VST3 you can get many, many more.
DG
This is not a limitation of the AU spec. As was demonstrated, one can get more than 8 instances of VE Pro connected by using both server types. Similarly, if VE Pro Server were written in a way to accomodate instantiation of multiple instances of itself, then one could instantiate as many VE Pro instances as one wanted.
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@DG said:
You haven't noticed, that's all.
It has nothing to do with number of tracks. With AU you can only get 16 MIDI channels per instance. With VST3 you can get many, many more.
DG
This is not a limitation of the AU spec. As was demonstrated, one can get more than 8 instances of VE Pro connected by using both server types. Similarly, if VE Pro Server were written in a way to accomodate instantiation of multiple instances of itself, then one could instantiate as many VE Pro instances as one wanted.
Of course it's a limitaiton. Can you get more than 16 MIDI channels in one instance of VE Pro with AU? No. Therefore 16 is the limit. [8-)]
DG
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@DG said:
Of course it's a limitaiton. Can you get more than 16 MIDI channels in one instance of VE Pro with AU? No. Therefore 16 is the limit.
DG
Semantics. The only interesting limit is at the application level. If one wants to truly support a given OS architecture then they deal with lower level limts (of which there are many for any OS). This issue can be accomodated in OS X equally well as in Windows (just diferently).
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@dbudde said:
OK. I have 16 connected in Logic. 8 from each server.
Hadn't tried that. So the limit on a single machine running OSX it 256 which I would have thought is plenty for all.... although that said you only get 3GB for the 32bit VEP instance to play with....
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@timkiel said:
Hadn't tried that. So the limit on a single machine running OSX it 256 which I would have thought is plenty for all.... although that said you only get 3GB for the 32bit VEP instance to play with....
At one point some time ago (I believe with some version of the original Vienna Ensemble), it was posible to create a duplcate copy of the application and rename it so you could run multiple instances of it to get around the instance limitation. That doesn't seem to work with VE Pro. I don't know if it still works with the old VE.
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@DG said:
Of course it's a limitation. Can you get more than 16 MIDI channels in one instance of VE Pro with AU? No. Therefore 16 is the limit.
DG
Semantics. The only interesting limit is at the application level. If one wants to truly support a given OS architecture then they deal with lower level limts (of which there are many for any OS). This issue can be accomodated in OS X equally well as in Windows (just diferently).
I don't think it is a question of semantics. it is an AU limitation, not an OS limitation, because AFAIK this limitation doesn't exist with VST or RTAS on OSX.
DG
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I haven't gotten to metaframes or automatic loads. But if we were to run both 32-bit and 64-bit for the sake of more VE's, I wonder how metaframes would interpret that. Is information distinguishing the two platforms embedded in a metaframe? Could we automatically load both servers on power-up? Otherwise, we're talking a manual load for one or the other before we could launch a Logic file accessing both bit sizes.
We all draw our own lines. Personally, I won't include sounds in a core template that require a manual launch before the DAW is opened. Heretofore, I open Logic, it loads the sounds, and I'm ready. Now we have to pre-launch VE PRO. But that in turn can be automated according to the manual. So the question is, can we automate both bit servers on one power-up using metaframes?
I imagine a few think all of this is much ado about nothing. But when you're in the middle of a major template rebuild relative to our recent leap in memory access, you want to be careful with your choices, as you'll live with them for another season of composing. My own templates last about twelve months, until user insight and version advances make an update unavoidable.
The goal never changes: large memory loads that are easy to access (to open and consult while composing) on a per articulation basis.
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@plowman said:
I haven't gotten to metaframes or automatic loads. But if we were to run both 32-bit and 64-bit for the sake of more VE's, I wonder how metaframes would interpret that. Is information distinguishing the two platforms embedded in a metaframe? Could we automatically load both servers on power-up? Otherwise, we're talking a manual load for one or the other before we could launch a Logic file accessing both bit sizes.
You can set the 'open with' parameter in the info pane of the metaframe file to distinguish which app gets loaded with a specific metaframe file. However this doesn't work quite the way I'd expect it to. If you set the 64-bit one to use VE Pro Server (64-bit) and the 32-bit one to use VE Pro Server, then when you double click one then it opens with the right version. When you double click the other one, then it just doesn't open.
However, if you select them both and then right-click and select open then they both open their respective apps. So, this seems a bit strange but there is one way to make that work.
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"However, if you select them both and then right-click and select open then they both open their respective apps."
Yep. Confirmed. Either / or, or both at once, but never one after another. Oh, what a weekend it's been.
Soon I hope to discover what Login Items does with this curious fact. If I put in both the 64-bit and 32-bit metaframes, I'd think that they would load sequentially, which is to say, the second wouldn't load. We'll see.
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Identical result. Syncrosoft kicks out the error message. If only one server (32 or 64) metaframe is in Login Items, that file loads. If two metaframes are in Login (both 32 and 64), neither item loads. In one attempt, both servers were in the Activity Monitor, but neither could be used.
I can also verify that the latest eLicenser download doesn't change the result.
That dual selection, manual "Open" was a good call. Now, ironically, we can't put EITHER of the metaframes in Login, and both must be manually, simultaneously launched. Not going to happen here. I must be content with the 64-bit server, take the eight instances it gives me, and re-think options.
VE PRO is amazing software, vanquishing soundcards and mixers and wires and worries. We only dreamed of this power a few years ago. Threads like this discuss the one element that is least fantastic, the local hosting limits. I know people worked extraordinarily hard to create this tool.