Producing orchestra mock-ups, best to do in Sibelius or in a DAW e.g Sonar

[strav100]

Although I like the idea of the SIbelius sound sets, I am thinking its better to do the score in Sibelius, then export the parts in the MIDI part for each track (for note and dynamic information) to Sonar and then do all the program changes for the articulations manually. There is no way I would attempt to put lots of note data in the piano roll in Sonar - it's obvioulsy much easier in Sibelius. 

Does anyone else do the same thing, put the notes in Sibelius, export individual parts to a DAW program and do all the articulation and mixing stuff there?

I noticed the Rite of Spring was done in Sonar 8.

[chemicalseb]

Hey strav100,

Doing a good mockup in Sibelius would be pretty much impossible in my opinion.  The amount of control that you'd have in a DAW is ultimately what you'd want for an actual mockup.  So yes, doing the notes in Sibelius and then importing in Sonar would be a good idea. To have a good mockup you would have to adjust note lengths so that they are more realistic, use velocity crossfades as well as expression automation, etc, which would indeed be nerve wracking to do in Sibelius.

I personally find composing directly in the DAW to be much more efficient.  What I end up doing is the opposite, I export the midi from Logic and then import it into Sibelius for notation.

[dayadon]

Hello.

I am having a decent time using Sibelius 6 with VE Plus Strings, and VE extended and download instruments.  I have then transferred a couple of pieces to Logic for mixing and and using decent plugins.  It's very nice that way for me, because I don't do well with input to a straght DAW at this point.  The articulations I use In Sibelius seem to transfer over to Logic just like they were in Sibelius.  The articulations show up in Logic as very low MIDI notes when you look at Logic's score feature.

That's just me, I suppose.  Since I am not too quick with the MIDI inputting way of doing things from the DAWs, I find it much better to use Sibelius first, then go to the DAW (I have used Pro Tools, also) for really getting things sounding good.

Perhaps I'll learn to use Logic 9 for the whole thing, but right now Sibelius 6 is getting pretty comfortable for inputting.  It's so much more like actually writing an arrangements of pieces, which is how I came up many years ago!

I'm using a Mac Pro 2.66 with 12 gig RAM, and some dedicated hard drives for VIs.

Good luck with your work!

[Pekay]

@dayadon said:

I am having a decent time using Sibelius 6 with VE Plus Strings, and VE extended and download instruments.  I have then transferred a couple of pieces to Logic for mixing and and using decent plugins.  It's very nice that way for me, because I don't do well with input to a straght DAW at this point.  The articulations I use In Sibelius seem to transfer over to Logic just like they were in Sibelius.  The articulations show up in Logic as very low MIDI notes when you look at Logic's score feature.

I love writing music in Sibelius. It is a natural and fast way. But I realize that a lot more can be done in a DAW to make it sound great. If you have a nice work flow going from Sibelius to a DAW (I use Logic) and back to Sibelius, please let me know. Kind regards Pekay

[pscart]

I struggle with this idea constantly. As a film composer, sometimes I need to work really fast and playing it into the sequencer seemed to be fast, at first..... However, after a while I seemed to be drawing in expression lines, volume swells, keyswitches and that took longer. I was using Finale at the time. I have since switched to Sibelius and am able to work pretty fast and am totally satisfied with the sound of all the articulations and how Sibelius handles them. Lets face it, it is never going to sound like an actual orchestra, but it seems close enough for a mock-up. I have also been using Rewire to sync up my Pro-Tools system with Sibelius and that works fine. So I guess I don't have a problem with using Sibelius the whole way, but maybe I'm old fashioned and like to see the notes. Also, I am not a fan of Logic, doesn't seem logical to me... So that's the way I do things. I have imported the midi files into protools before and tweaked them. But I hate sliding midi messages around and drawing lines with the mouse for crescendo's etc..... I want to write music and not feel like I am doing graphic design. Hope this is helpful. Ultimately we are still waiting for the perfect system for composing on the computer. I still love writing at the piano with manuscript paper the best. I like the idea of John Williams doodling a theme on a napkin and telling some hungry, ambitious young composer/orchestrator: "Make it so!" -Peter

[strav100]

Thanks for all your views. I think I am in the right direction. 

I have Sonar 8 Producer, Sibelius 5 and the VSL SE with the plus add-on, but not the extended instruments. I am going to copy an orchestral score into Sibelius - perfect copying - purely to practice my engraving skills and use Sibelius with the VSL+ Sound Set.

Next, transfer the MIDI parts from Sibelius into Sonar and do the mock up in there, drawing automation curves, doing anything basically to get the sound as realistic as possible. I just couldn't enter all the notes in a piano roll and as for composing I have got to see the music in Sibelius. I like pen/paper or entering notes in Sibelius - I have to see the chords, the function of the harmony, motif structure, counterpoint, etc. It's all gone on a piano roll - I'm completely lost.

Hopefully, I get a mock up done in the not too distant future. I'm crippled with the RAM limit in XP - when I get Win 7 in October I can go up to 8 Gb on the motherboard. I did buy my first Mac (I see a lot of you guys are using Macs) 3/4 months ago - It's only a little white one but I'm very impressed!

[pscart]

Sounds good. I'm with you with seeing the notes. I use the little white mac too, I upgraded the RAM to 2Gig which helps tremendously. This is the only downfall of the Mac Mini, it isn't upgradable beyond 2gig of RAM. I want to get a Mac Tower eventually which can max out at 32Gigs of RAM, which seems like a lot, but if you try and input Mahler's Symphony of 1000 it's not so much!!! ;) -Pete

[dayadon]

Hello, Pekay.

I have mainly just gone from inputting in Sibelius, then going to Logic.  A while ago, I tried Logic work into Sibelius, and will try that again, soon, but that was not transferring as well as doing it the other way.

I use mainly basic dynamics in Sibelius, like Hairpins, staccato, marcato, slurs, trills, among other, not too 'exotic' articulations before moving the music to Logic.  I'm still learning about the best ways to do this, but the basics are going smoothly to this point.

Once I've worked on things in Logic with all of it's very nice effects plugins, I don't think it would do well going back into Sibelius from there.  I don't think you can access the nice reverb, for example that Logic has from within Sibelius.

[Pekay]

I'm really happy to read that there are people out there who like to see the music on a score sheet. No conductor would use a piano roll when conducting an orchestra. So, I'll go on writing the music in Sibelius and making it sound good in Logic. Works fine. Thanks for your comments. Pekay