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  4. MIR - i7 920 2.66 Ghz
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    @hose said:

    If I get an Asus P6T, and want more than 12GB ram what shall I get? Are there any other kits available rather than the Kingston 12GB unECC kit of 3, that costs over $1000? thanks



    Hi, It's not the ECC that is the problem (the i7 can just ignore that) but rather the Registered and unRegistered RAM modules. At the moment the 3x4GB DDR3 unRegistered modules aren't really available, although you may see them advertised, they are just hugely expensive first run if you can find them at all.

    This will change in the not too distant future but at the moment you do have to go with Registered dimms if you want 3x4GB kits and that means Xeon 5500 series.

    Something I will get around to testing shortly is running a 5500 series xeon on a standard desktop i7 motherboard, which does work apparently, but I wonder, because the memory controller is on the chip if that means it will then take the Regsitered dimms, I doubt it but it is worth a try when I get a spare min.

    Back to your question though, you will have to wait to use more then 12GB on the desktop i7 systems, probably until the end of the year.

    Most probably I'm going for the following specs;

    Asus Z8PE-D12

    dual cpu xeon e5520

    24GB ram (most probably, since the motherboard has 12 ram slots, I'll buy 2GB chips)

    According to some benchmarks I should have more CPU power than an i7 975, and don't have to do any overclocking hopefully. I hope I will have enough power for a large MIR project. Feedback from anyone who has MIR working on a dual xeon e5520, is really appreceated.

    Also I have a Tascam FW1804(the rack version). There are Vista 64bit drivers available, therefore I intend to use windows 7 64. Is there anyone who has the same device?? perhaps I can save a few bucks on the audiocard. thanks
  • D
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    I would look at the more established names in the server market when it comes to motherboards, Asus make much used consumer boards (although i have my own opinions about them too!) but aren't big names in the dual socket sector.
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC

    i would assume those boards (intel, tyan, supermicro, asus) are all manufactured at the same place in taiwan ... BIOS and a few supporting controllers (firewire, usb, ect) migth be different ...

     

    the 5520: we currently have one for testing, 24 GB RAM, overclocked to 2.9 GHz, not yet finetuned ... very impressive ... seems to be a tick less performant than the 5580 (3.2 GHz)

     

    personally i'm still not sure what the most important part is - CPU speed, memory speed, number of calculation units, level2/level3 cache ... the amount of possible testing scenarios is pretty huge ... we will have to find out.

    christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • D
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    Have had more problems with capacitors and bad BIOS revisions with Asus then other brands, nasty bugs with Sata ports disappearing was my favourite, time consuming, problem a couple of years ago.
  • H
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    Thanks Christian. I have both a Tyan and a supermicro motherboard here at work, they are storage servers. and so far, never had any problems. All the other desktop PCs have Asus motherboards. Can't really quarel of any trouble, touch wood. I don't know, but Asus seems like a top brand for me aswell, maybe not so popular for workstations and server perhaps.
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    @DG said:

    Jules, thanks for the reply. it does help to clarify things for me, so it's all good. I have no intention of trying to work at a higher buffer than 256, as even this makes things very uncomfortable. I don't mind muting parts from time to time, but I think that I'm going to need to come up with a different workflow, as there is no way that any of the players I use for live stuff would like to work at a buffer of 512, even when using Direct Monitoring.

    DG

     

    Hi DG

    Well, it sounds like there is a bypass button, and Christian should certainly know.  I don't recall seeing it, although there are independent dry/wet controls for each instrument, so perhaps that enables the system to bypass MIR.  I'd have to run some tests to establish how much overhead this really saves though.

    If you're monitoring directly, I'm not sure I understand why latency should be an issue for live players.  I guess I'm missing part of your workflow, but if all you'd be doing is playing your arrangement back from MIR and recording live audio into your host, with the players monitoring themselves directly from your host or mixer, then latency should not be a factor at all.   Ahhhh (penny drops!) you're probably imagining a system where your host is on the same rig as Mir, in which case if you have to monitor via your host then you have the same master latency, set by your audio hardware.  Personally I never monitor via host software, I use ProTools HD (which has zero latency) on a separate machine for mixing, and Logic Pro on another separate machine for my arrangements, running at low latency, and can record on either system without any significant latency.  I think running big arrangements in Mir, and a host with a load of plugins, and recording live, all on the same system would be pushing things a little.

    I will work at 256ms on the Mir machine and I doubt I will have many problems, but then my arrangements are rather less complex than the kind of template you've described.

    Jules
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    Hi Jules, you have described my situation correctly. I have no interest in using more than one machine any more; I've done enough of that.....! As MIR is only outputting one stereo channel (unless one is doing surround), using a separate machine just for recording and mixing would be a waste of effort and hinder my workflow from what I would like it to be.

     
    If it turns out that I need two machines, I guess that it would be possible to work at a higher latency, but I'm trying to avoid this.
    Thanks for the explanations. it makes things so much clearer in my mind.
     
    DG
  • T
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    My pleasure DG.  

    I'm afraid I've given up on the one-machine solution, although it's a totally worthy aim.  I just always find that one system to be too heavily taxed to be totally reliable.

    Good luck and all the best

    Jules
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    @Trailerman said:

    My pleasure DG.  

    I'm afraid I've given up on the one-machine solution, although it's a totally worthy aim.  I just always find that one system to be too heavily taxed to be totally reliable.

     

    Fair enough. It's just that "one-machine" is my current workflow (with a 23GB template), and I don't want MIR to make things worse for me, rather than better.

    DG 
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    Hi Jules

    I'm not sure why you mean "If you're monitoring directly, I'm not sure I understand why latency should be an issue for live players." ? 

    I plan to use a separate machine for MIR, but the latency issue is still in play here too as I see it - when I play on my main keyboard the midi goes though the main DAW then via MOL or similar to the MIR host's instrument, which then introduces an extra 1024 samples delay before sending the audiosignal back via eg. ADAT to the main DAW and finally to the speakers for me to hear. So there is at least 25 ms delay (more likely 35 ms) btw I press a key and I hear the sound playing.

    But offcause having a bypass function will help a lot here - running 128 samples buffer instead while recording midi, and then raise the buffer when switching on the MIR functions.
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    Hi Bjarne

    My statement related specifically to DG's comment about latency when working with live players, not when recording MIDI.   If you're working with live musicians and have your host running on a separate system, then as long as the musicians are monitoring themselves 'direct' or via a low latency host buffer setting, MIR latency will not be an issue.  In fact DG intends to run everything on one system, in which case it  clearly IS an issue, because MIR and the host would share the same buffer settings.

    I'll have to check into the bypass function, I wasn't aware of it, but have not been using MIR for the last few days.   When I ran some stress tests I found 512 samples (sorry, I keep quoting buffers in ms, brain not working) not  to be a problem, and that involved MOL, and it also invovled audio being routed back to Logic on a separate machine and then from Logic onto another separate machine running ProTools HD via lightpipe.  1024 could become probelmatic, no doubt.

    I would have thought that on a well specified i7 machine you would get very good performance at 256 samples, indeed it may deliver close to the Xeon spec I use.  The only reason I ended up with a Xeon machine is because of the price of 4GB Ram modules for the i7 config, because I wanted the system to have 24GB.  When I compared specs, I could get the dual Xeon system for the same price as a 24GB i7 rig because of the savings on Ram cost.

    Cheers

    Jules
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    Hi Jules - get it now [:)]

     - thx for your input, much appreciated.

    By the way I do think that your dual XEON W5580 setup is significantly more powerfull than the i7 platform. At least when it comes to raw computing power in the form of integer and floting point operations. 
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    Eh.. I don't mean to be rude to the guy at the start of this thread... But the guy recommending that you buy a good graphics card for a pro audio rig seriously doesn't know what he's talking about. But the cheapest graphics card you can, it will make zero difference to your audio performance. (GUIs have nothing to do with it, any graphics card can pump out a 2d GUI).
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
    Sorry, that's not true. We have made bad experiences when the graphic card doesn't adhere to some minimal standards.

    ... but of course the requirements are no the same as for full-fledged PC-games! 8-)
    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC
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    @Hamish said:

    the guy recommending that you buy a good graphics card
     

    harmish, it appears you _are_ rude ... though i don't know who *the guy* is i can assure you directX10, openGL 2.1 _is_ a system requirement - we had a hard time to get a slightly older directX9 card to work properly ... read through the posts (especially mine) and you will understand ... would you really like to throw your performance resources on the grafic?

    christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
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    @cm said:

    the 5520: we currently have one for testing, 24 GB RAM, overclocked to 2.9 GHz, not yet finetuned ... very impressive ... seems to be a tick less performant than the 5580 (3.2 GHz)

     personally i'm still not sure what the most important part is - CPU speed, memory speed, number of calculation units, level2/level3 cache ... the amount of possible testing scenarios is pretty huge ... we will have to find out.

    christian

     

    Hi Christian

    I suppose the memory bandwidth is increased also when overclocking the 5520 ?

    I've noticed that the X and W types have 6.4Gb memory bus, while the E types "only" have 5.8Gb
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    Again, the graphics card shouldn't matter. I mean, I don't have MIR software but as far as I understand it's a simple 2d interface made of images and text, right? So unless it's programmed horrendously badly, a cheap graphics card should have no problem chewing through that interface in milliseconds.
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD

    Hamish - the easiest way to get some first-hand experience would be to download the demo version of Vienna MIR and try. Christian (cm) has already pointed out the needs of its GUI.

    It seems that you don't own any VIs by now, but you could use its graphical features anyway.

    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
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    Well I don't mean to tell you that you're wrong. Obviously if you're the programmer you know best. It's just surprising to me, I've only ever experienced 3D applications requiring any sort of decent graphics card.
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
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    Quoting myself:

    @Another User said:

    We have made bad experiences when the graphic card doesn't adhere to some minimal standards.

    ... but of course the requirements are no the same as for full-fledged PC-games! 8-)
    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library