ad 1) please remember the server solution has been introduced to allow accessing seperate memory (outside of the host application) which was (and basically still is) essential for loading a significant amount of data.

there is a bunch of industry standards out there - some ore more open, some proprietary and/or closed ... VST (2, 3), AU, RTAS, MAS, TDM, ReWire, ect. not every vendor has a perfect implementation of the respective specification, some vendors are more responsive than others.

currently i don't want to comment on PLAY at all.

ad 2) the path how protection is currently implemented does also secure your investment very well - however there is nothing which can't be improved and VSL is aware that there _are_ issues (caused by whatever) and taking appropriate steps to de-escalate the problematic incidents.

christian

@cm said:

btw: how many licenses are on your iLok vs. on your eLicenser? if it is *only* an issue with the timing of the USB controller for the rear ports there might be a software fix possible, though probable suspicion would be the controller is slighly out of the USB specs.

christian

Hi Christian,

I have Altiverb and ALL the PLAY Libraries and Ivory on my iLok -- 24.  I've mentioned this before and maybe it's worth taking a serious look at.  When we speak of license count -- if there was a way to consolidate the licenses into a single license in VSL may help the issue, if in fact, the number of licenses per dongle are contributing to the issue.

For example, rather than to license each and every aspect of VSL, which is the easiest to implement and manage, but rather if someone owned for example Cube, then a new license issued that would consolidate into a single license.  Even if there were two licenses, one for standard and one for extended.  The number of licenses would be drastically cut which common sense implies that less scans, quicker loads -- less tasking on the dongle.  

Licenses could be managed in groups which means as the number of library ownership increases by individual, they would qualify for a single group licenses that covers the bulk of what they own thereby decreasing the overall-number of licenses per individual.  Also, something would have to be designed in order to allow individuals to spread library components across multiple computers along with their associated licenses.

Don't have the complete answer here but maybe their is a solution as to how the implementation could be modified.  As far as eLicense versus iLok, it may be that both would have the same issues and that the real issues is the number of licenses.

I'm I making sense here?

@cm said:

d 1) please remember the server solution has been introduced to allow accessing seperate memory (outside of the host application) which was (and basically still is) essential for loading a significant amount of data.

Agree ... my thoughts were once the sequencers on the Mac support 64-bit then the need for a separate server app. would not be required in order to house the large sample count, would the VSL Team modify their GUI instrument interface to respond like the rest of the virtual instruments in the market today?

@cm said:

there is a bunch of industry standards out there - some ore more open, some proprietary and/or closed ... VST (2, 3), AU, RTAS, MAS, TDM, ReWire, ect. not every vendor has a perfect implementation of the respective specification, some vendors are more responsive than others.

currently i don't want to comment on PLAY at all.

Understand.....  From an end-user point of view and with the advent of larger and larger single computers, the industry (who ever that is) would benefit I believe from a set of standards that would force design standards in order to gain a peaceful co-existance of the various virtual instruments available in the market.  The current solution when two different instrument do not co-exist peacefully is to place them on separate computers that are networked to the main sequencer.  With larger machines capable of handing larger instrument counts, peaceful coexistence becomes more significant and important.

One may say that we are speaking of a perfect world with our head in the clouds, but remember the engineering community over time established SAE, and don't forget even in the computer industry ASCII, etc.  So I believe in time, there is hope that this industry will evolve.

@cm said:

there is nothing which can't be improved and VSL is aware that there _are_ issues (caused by whatever) and taking appropriate steps to de-escalate the problematic incidents.

It's very encouraging to read this - thanks cm! This has been a long and heated debate and hopefully there are solutions somewhere ahead.......

@STUDIO ROST said:

I never had any trouble with my ILok, which runs various software! With all the other dongles I´ve tried - problems.. I think it´s very strange that paying customers should suffer when companies like VSL and SSL starts really complicated dongle procedures with hardly no support due to their fear of losing money to piracy. If you can´t support your paying customers, then they will turn PIRATE, simple math 😊 So, I think they are making a big mistake here. I´m considering discontinuing the use of Vienna, because the company seem cheap-ass towards customers (poor support, rotten deals, pretty obvious they just want to make money) I.M.H.O Markus, Stockholm, Sweden

What problems are you having? Please provide some system specs so that we can try to help you.

DG

If we get into a vote, I've had ZERO synchro soft issues...yet, have had iLok issues with both the iLok 1 and now 2. I had to break out diag tools to diagnose and fix my own ilok2 issue...which it turns out affects every install of Win7 that is not actively on a network. 2 months after I reported in detail the problem and fix, I got a note today that they're writing up a knowledge base article. 

Anyway...i bought an iLok 1 for a single app--caused config issues in XP years ago...bought a 2 for a second app and while I ultimately fixed it for them, it caused the software I bought to not actually work for the first week or so of ownership. Time that should've been spent mixing was spent diagnosing and resolving the issue. Not to mention the time it takes Waves vintage series to open. Yank the iLok while you wait--it'll barf...that's what its waiting on. 

Two strikes. Ask me if I'm ever going to buy anything else that goes on an iLok. I vote hells no. 

well, seems easy - iLok is good on Mac and erratic on Windows, syncrosoft good on Windows and erratic on Mac. for me as well - zero problems with iLok ( but also with Yellowtools Wibu or Logic Key) - lots and never ending headaches with syncrosoft.

i mean, one buys samples for thousands of euros ( high priced product -and high quality product) and then needs to get a piece of plastic that is poorly manufactured, feels cheap and fragile ( the drivers on mac are exactly that as well) to copy protect it. if you run into problems they tell you to connect the dongle to a USB-port on the computer and not to a hub - how realistic is that as a solution? maybe they should buy Apple and other manufactures first so they can command that computers have at least 16 USB-ports for all the dongles, USB interfaces, keyboards, mices, etc. 

Alone this support answer it outrages - to me it is an expression that they are not that interested in problems their users have with this dongle. 

Best

I don't know whether anybody else has had this annoying problem, but when the VSL key is not at the back of my computer (often), I cannot start Sibelius properly. It crashes time after time as VE is trying to verify the missing key, and it must be a fault with the VSL software for it doesn't matter how many times one presses 'Abort', the program still crashes. Why can't VE just accept the 'Abort' command and not insist trying to load on?!

@Errikos said:

....when the VSL key is not at the back of my computer (often), I cannot start Sibelius properly.

I use Logic, not Sibelius, but it seems to me that you have an Autoload song (or whatever it's called in Sibelius) that contains an instance of some VSL software (VE?).

My suggestion would be to simplify your defaults so that Sibelius opens without having to look for any VSL software. I don't think you can blame this on VSL - it's your Sibelius that's asking for key because of what you have loaded - well that's my guess at least.

@steff3 said:

iLok is good on Mac and erratic on Windows, syncrosoft good on Windows and erratic on Mac

Funny - I've never had any problems with either.

 I use Syncrosoft and iLok on PC's and also, have never had any problems with either. They just both always work every day.

@Errikos said:

....when the VSL key is not at the back of my computer (often), I cannot start Sibelius properly.

I use Logic, not Sibelius, but it seems to me that you have an Autoload song (or whatever it's called in Sibelius) that contains an instance of some VSL software (VE?).

My suggestion would be to simplify your defaults so that Sibelius opens without having to look for any VSL software. I don't think you can blame this on VSL - it's your Sibelius that's asking for key because of what you have loaded - well that's my guess at least.

I also use Logic for performance and mixing but I am a composer that notates first. It's not when I open a Sibelius file (VE involving) that I get this behaviour, but when I run the program itself (default). I don't know anything in Sibelius preferences which allows one to choose whether to bypass other platforms or not... It isn't Sibelius asking for a key, but VE (which just runs itself without being asked) that does. This behaviour MUST be addressed and solved by VSL, maybe in conjunction with Avid, unless I'm the only one who experiences it - but I've had this problem since Tiger, right through to Snow Leopard, and I don't want to have the Vienna key on my computer when I'm not using VSL software. 

P.S.: I've yet to experience problems with my EWQL Symphonic Choirs key (PLAY engine is another issue).

@ Errikos:

Very strange....

Does Logic also cause this problem when you open it? If not, then there's surely something about Sibelius that causes the problem.

I just tried booting Logic with my VSL keys removed and it opens just fine. VE doesn't run by itself - only when I start it. I really doubt this is a VSL problem. Maybe you should write to the folks at Sibelius - it's almost certainly their problem. Or a user malfunction...[;)]

Hello Errikos!

The behaviour of Sibelius during startup can be set in the Preferences/Playback menu. I recommend the following settings there:
When starting Sibelius, load this playback configuration: General MIDI (basic)
Opening Files: Let me choose whether to change to the new configuration

This way you will need the Vienna Key only when you load a playback configuration with one of our collections or plugins included.
Additionally the Vienna Key will be needed whe the plugin folder gets validated, which is the case after installing additional plugins.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
Andi

Thanks Andi, any new compositions coming on video? 

My default Sibelius Playback Configuration was always set to the default 'Sibelius Sounds' - I now changed it to 'General MIDI (basic)', but why this will make a difference since the default sounds do come with Sibelius I don't know; we'll see... My Opening Files settings were as you suggested anyway. 

I still don't see why Sibelius would try to find VE connections when by default I don't ask it to when I open it...

Cheers.

@musos: This user does malfunction more often than is convenient, in this case I don't think it's his fault. My Logic also opens without the Vienna key, maybe it is a Sibelius problem, it is just very annoying, very unprofessional!

Hi Errikos!

I see. In this case it will not make much difference between the Sibelius sounds and the General MIDI (basic) sounds.

Anyway, as written in my last mail, you should need the Vienna Key only when opening Playback Configurations with instruments or plugins by VSL included or after installing new plugins or instruments. Sibelius validates all installed plugins and instruments then and therefore the Vienna Key is needed. After this procedure it shouldn't be needed at the following starts of Sibelius.

Best,
Andi

@VSL Community said:

Only thing what i can say its big sad there is two different dongle standards at least why? in back in my mac mini is not much usb ports free when i maybe need two dongles one for vsl se (extended) and one for ovory for example.

One could also say that it's a shame that there are two operating systems. Since most people use Windows, Mac OS should be phased out. Much easier all round. [:P]

It's all about choice, and there is no reason that this should not extend to copy protection devices. In fact there are quite a few more than 2 choices; it's just that Steinberg and iLok are the most common, AFAIK.

DG