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  4. New User Question: Changing articulations in Sibelius
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Every patch of the Special Edition matrices can be reached with the appropriate marking or text in the score.
    However, if you want to use MIDI commands (keyswitches and Control changes), that's also possible. To be honest, I don't know why you would want to do that, but here is how anyway.

    Keyswtiches:
    ~Nxx,64 followed shortly by ~Oxx,64
    These are MIDI commands for Note on and Note off. xx stands for the MIDI number of the Keyswitch. (24=C1, 25=C#1, ...)

    Control Changes:
    ~Cxx,yy
    For example ~C1,127 would send value 127 for MIDI CC 1 (=Mod Wheel)

    For further details on MIDI commands in Sibelius see the Sibelius manual chapter 4.15.

    By the way. If you are using Sibelius 5.2, I strongly recommend updating to Sibelius 5.2.5, which solved some playback issues.

    Best,
    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • J
    J

    Andi: 

    Thanks for your help so far.  I've made tremendous progress using your advice.  I do have the latest version of Sibelius and VE.  A couple points I need clarification on:

    When setting up a configuration, should I use the Special Edition presets, or individual patches?  I seem to have more trouble with the presets with articulations.  I'm also having trouble loading 2 instances of VE ( I have more than 16 instruments.)  When I use presets, I can't get the instruments assigned to the 2nd instance to sound.  (cellos and basses, in this case.)  If I switch them over to orchestral strings cellos and basses, they work.

    When using invidual patches (orchestral strings violins, for example) I seem to be limited to one note per staff.  If I divisi, the top note drops.  Is this a limitation on RAM on my machine (Macbook Pro 4gb ram)  I don't seem to have that problem if I use SE presets.

    Some instruments occaisionally won't play until the end of a note.  For example, I have a whole note written for the flute, but it plays only a quarter note.  Inserting a sustain or legato doesn't seem to fix it.

    Thanks

    Jay Brennan
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hi Jay!

    The Special Edition sound set is designed to go with the matrices (not the presets) that come with it.

    When using more instances of Vienna Ensemble, don't forget to set channels and programs for all instances on the Manual Sound Sets page. You can switch between the instances in the "Device:" line on that page.

    Our legato patches are monophonic. So if you write a slur (which triggers the legato patch), you are are indeed limited to one voice. The other patches are polyphonic. If you want to notate more voices in one staff with a slur, you can exclude the slur from playback and thus avoid switching to legato. To do so, select the slur and go to the Properties windows/Playback. Uncheck the boxes for play on pass 1-8.

    Best,
    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • J
    J

    Andi:

    Thanks so much for all your help.  I don't have any problems with multiple instances of VE; that seems to be working fine.  With your help, I'm making great progress.

    That note dropping problem I mentioned, where some notes won't play their full duration, seems to have to do with Sibelius and slurs.  If I slur to a whole note, the whole note stops playing about half way through.  If I move the slur so it doesn't affect the note, the note sounds for its full duration.  Not sure if that's a bug or not.

    As for divisi, can I get around that problem using multiple staffs for those parts?  Does any VE product offer polyphonic legato patches?  I was planning on investing in SE2 to get the string harmonics.

    Thanks

    JB
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    If you put the divisi strings on two staves, you can play both voices legato. Don't forget to reserve two channels for these strings on the Manual Sound Sets page and in Vienna Ensemble.
    Because of the automatic interval analysis in the legato patches, they can only be monophonic - in all our products. The harmonics included in the Special Edition PLUS you have mentioned are no peformance legati and therefore polyphonic.

    The flute legato notes are not looped and so end after some time. In cases where they are too short for you, please exclude the slur from playback as described earlier. Then the sustain patch with looped samples gets triggered.

    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • P
    P
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    @andi said:

    Every patch of the Special Edition matrices can be reached with the appropriate marking or text in the score.
    Most articulations work, but I seem to be having trouble getting Sibelius 5.2.5 and VE (with the SE+) to obey certain markings on a Violin ensemble. Standard harmonics aren't being read at all -- they are played with the sustain patch. Trills are played, but not ideally -- they are manually performed by Sibelius, with VE using the sustain patch, instead of Sibelius performing a single held note and selecting the appropriate trill patch in VE. How might I get around these issues? Should I use the MIDI messages mentioned above, or is there some magic setting I can change?
  • J
    J

    I just purchased SE2 Strings to get harmonics, and I am having the same problems.  Inserting text or using diamond noteheads has no effect.  It plays as legato
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    For the Special Edition PLUS you will need the Special Edition PLUS sound set. If you haven't done so yet, you can download it at the following location:
    http://vsl.co.at/en/68/375/460/295.htm

    Harmonics can be reached by two ways.
    1.) Add the Harmonic/Open articulation sign to the note (that's the small circle).
    2.) Write "harmonics" above the note, where a section of harmonics starts. This section can be ended by one of the folloing commands: "ord.", "normal", "natural"

    As for the trills, they should be triggered as one note samples. If you are still using the Special Edition sound set instead of the Special Edition PLUS sound set, they can't be triggered because trills are not included in the Special Edition.

    Best,
    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • P
    P
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    @andi said:

    For the Special Edition PLUS you will need the Special Edition PLUS sound set. If you haven't done so yet, you can download it at the following location:
    http://vsl.co.at/en/68/375/460/295.htm

    Harmonics can be reached by two ways.
    1.) Add the Harmonic/Open articulation sign to the note (that's the small circle).
    2.) Write "harmonics" above the note, where a section of harmonics starts. This section can be ended by one of the folloing commands: "ord.", "normal", "natural"

    As for the trills, they should be triggered as one note samples. If you are still using the Special Edition sound set instead of the Special Edition PLUS sound set, they can't be triggered because trills are not included in the Special Edition.

    Best,
    Andi

    Oh ok, thanks Andi, that helped! I guess I grabbed the wrong sound set or something at some point.
  • P
    P

    Oops, I take that back. I'm still having problems. My wind choir trills properly now. But, in a separate score for string orchestra, I still cannot get harmonics to play back properly. I did install the SE+ Soundset, and updated the performance Dictionary as told in the help file. I made sure my manual soundset was set up properly, plus I made sure everything in the Sibelius mixer was on the correct channel. But now, not only do the harmonics play the same patch as before, but I can't get anything except the first and second violin sections to play back at all (MIDI channel 1 and 2). The violas, cellos, and basses are not playing a note, even though they work when I hit the "Test" button in the Playback Devices window.

    I haven't got a clue what is going on.
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Can you tell me exactly what settings you made on the Manual Sound Sets page?
    What output do violas, cellos and basses go to when you hit play?
    For the orchestral strings you need the Orchestral Strings Programs (Violins Orchestral, Violas Orchestral, ...). Also don't forget that if you have one section more than once in your score, you will also have to reserve two channels for it in the manual sound sets page.

    Andi 

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • P
    P
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    @Another User said:

    What output do violas, cellos and basses go to when you hit play?
    They look like they're going to MIDI channels 3,4, and 5 (plus the solo violin on 6), but they don't work in the score. The channels match each other perfectly in Playback Devices, the Sibelius mixer, and in VE.
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    That's strange. Do they really go to Vienna Ensemble? Can you check up the channels 3-6 in Vienna Ensemble on arriving MIDI signals during playback? You can see it in the "bull's eye" of the Vienna Instruments.

    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • P
    P
    Everything is set up so that it LOOKS like it should be going to VE. Nothing is muted; all the channels are correct. The "bull's eye" lights up on the corresponding channel when I press "test" in the Playback Devices window, but not when I play the score (except for first and second violin sections). I still can't figure this out.
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    This sounds a bit mysterious to me. Please do the following things to follow the signals during the playback.
    1.) Open the Sibelius mixer.
    2.) Take a look which output AND which channel the instruments go to (before AND during playback)
    3.) Take another look which channels are set in Vienna Ensemble. They should be the same as on the Manual Sound Sets page.

    If everything is set up right and things keep going wrong, you could try to create the instruments again in Sibelius and then cut and paste the content of the old staves to the new ones. That might help.

    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • P
    P
    I got it working again. Everything appeared correct but was still giving me problems. I even tried recreating the instrument and copying and pasting the notes across staves, but that didn't work. I managed to fix it by going into the Playback Devices and reducing all the instruments in the sound set to just one instrument, on one channel, and then rebuilding it from there. Not exactly sure what why it worked, but it's working again! Thanks for your time.
  • P
    P
    Ok, I'm having a separate problem, but it's still on topic; it was mentioned earlier in this thread: Harmonics (Natural, not artificial). They play properly now, except that they will not revert back to normal playing after the symbol disappears.

    I tried writing "ord.", "norm", "normal", "normale", and "natural", but nothing works. I confirmed that "ord." and "norm" are in the Dictionary, and they trigger a sound ID change to "[reset]" (until the next sound ID change). That seems like it should work, but it does not. Plus, I would think they play normal after the harmonic articulation disappears, without the need for any staff text (I understand artificial harmonics are different). Is the Dictionary entry incorrect? What can I do to get the violins to play normal again?

    [Update: Nevermind, I fixed this as well. I recreated the violin instruments in the score and copied and pasted the notes to the new staves. Works fine.]
  • J
    J

    I've about given up trying to get harmonics to work.  Even when I create a new score with one staff and one instrument, create a new playback configuration, create a new VSL configuration, harmonics still won't work.  No matter how I notate harmonics, the legato patch always plays.  So I want to go back to basics:

    in the playback configration, i have:

    Vienna Instruments AU

    Vienna Ensemble AU

    VSL VST

    Vienna Ensemble VST

    I am using Vienna Ensemble AU.  Is that correct?

    In manual sound settings, under sound set, I have

    VE Speical EDITION

    VE SPECIAL EDITION PLUS

    VSL Ensemble Special Edition

    VSL Special Edition

    Which one should I use?

    All string patches are orchestral strings.

    In the user library application support/siebelius software/sounds directory, I have two files:

    VE Special Edtion (Sib 5.2).xml and

    VE Special Edition Plus.xml
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hello Jay!

    Yes, Vienna Ensemble AU is the one to choose on Mac

    I took a look at your records. You registered the Special Edition Standard and the Special Edition PLUS Strings Standard.
    This means you have the PLUS content for the strings and the SE content for brass, woodwinds and percussion.
    As a consequence you will need the VE Special Edition sound set for the winds and percussion and the VE Special Edition PLUS sound set for the strings. This also means, that you need two activated instances of Vienna Ensemble when combining wind and string instruments in one score.

    Harmonics are working fine on my machine. I guess you combined the wrong sound set with the wrong string matrices. Please use the VE Special Edition sound set with the normal matrices and the VE Special Edition PLUS sound set with the + matrices.

    The sound sets "VSL Ensemble Special Edition" and "VSL Special Edition" are older sound set versions. You don't need them.

    Best,
    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • J
    J

    The problem seems to be with the VE plus sound set file.  If I load the VE special edition soundset, articulations change normally (except harmonics, but that's not part of that sound set, so I don't expect that to work.)  If I load the VE Special Edition Plus  soundset, none of the articulation changes work:  pizz, arco, harmonics, legato, etc.  For some reason the violins load a slap pizz articulation and that doesn't change throughout the piece, no matter what articulation changes are in the score.  If I switch back to the VE special edition soundset, pizz, arco, sustain, legato all work normally again.

    I can't find the VSL Ensemble and VSL Special edition sound sets anywhere on my hard drive, but Sibelius still shows them.  I wonder if that could be mucking things up.

    Jay