Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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  • Control an instrument's Vibrato amount with Vienna Instruments interface

    Hello, I wonder if someone could please help me out: I use Logic Pro 8 and Vienna Instruments as AU. However I can't find a way to assign vibrato amount (LFO) on 'map control' or anywhere else. Is it possible? I just want to control vibrato of an instrument with my mod wheel to give it even more realism. I am using VSL SE bundle standard. Thanks very much, Regards, Nuno

  • No, you can't assign an LFO for vibrato. Most instruments that are normally played with vibrato come with vibrato and non-vibrato patches, so you can choose which to use, or keyswitch between them. there are also progressive vibrato patches for some instruments.

    FWIW I have yet to hear and LFO vibrato on any sample make it sound more real....!

    DG

  • Hi DG! Thanks for your reply, you're probably right. Do I have vib and non vib patches in VSL SE Bundle? I don't seem to find it... Thanks again, regards.

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    @nunodariosa@gmail.com said:

    Hi DG! Thanks for your reply, you're probably right. Do I have vib and non vib patches in VSL SE Bundle? I don't seem to find it... Thanks again, regards.

    You almost certainly have vibrato patches. I don't know about non vibrato though. Check the articulation list for your product on this website and you should be able to find out.


    DG

  • Although I have a laundry list of things I wish VSL would implement to make the libraries more friendly towards wind controllers, vibrato is not necessarily one of them.


  • Heres another trick concerning vibrato: Load a vibrato patch in one cell, a non vibrato patch in the other, activate the chain so they crossfade, and using a midi CC you can now choose when you want to add vibrato! I do this all the time in other libs, and just started doing it with the few non vib patches I have of VI; boy do I wish SE had non vib patches!

  • Hi to all people answering my post. You've all been very helpful. Of course realism is why I bought VSL. But the thing is that I don't have vib or non vib (Inever sai I only wanted to add vib, I want also to subtract- even if you're just contrasting, ex:I may want to add just to subtract it on the next passage foor a more ethereal music with no vib,etc) The problem is VSL SE bundle standard I bought has no vib or non vib patches. Thanks! Regards to all!

  • Obviously it depends what instruments you're talking about, but in the main you do have the vibrato patches. It's the non vib ones that you don't. If you need them then buy the larger products.

    DG

  • I didn't have time to login to answer this one earlier, but wanted to make sure it's clear to the original poster that Vienna Special Edition simply left off the "vibrato" terminology in its patch names, but those are the actual ones included. This became very clear to me when I started comparing VSE patches to full library edition patches.

  • Since VSL is at the forefront of producing realistic orchestral libraries it would be amazing if they could come up with a vibrato engine for their instruments as this is one of the areas that still shows up samples from a real performance. Imagine a modulation engine that applies resynthesis of non-vibrato samples based on the particular characteristics of that instrument. Then you could choose when to add vibrato, the speed of the vibrato and you would have continuous control over the depth and speed rather than crossfade between on and off. An additional benefit would be the need for fewer articulations. Using different sample sets for vibrato and non-vibrato it is not possible to cover all the subtleties and nuances of a real performance. Could something be done through the analysis of vibrato samples which is then used to create some kind of convolution engine?

  • The Stradavari and Gofriller in Kontakt have very realistic and variable LFO generated vibrato. Would be nice indeed if VSL were to come up with something similar...Colin.

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    @ct1961 said:

    The Stradavari and Gofriller in Kontakt have very realistic and variable LFO generated vibrato. Would be nice indeed if VSL were to come up with something similar...Colin.

    I guess that would depend on your point of view. I have yet to hear anything good from either of these abominations. [:O]

    In all seriousness, string vibrato is a very complicated thing to understand. Without being a player I doubt that most people could produce anything realistic with an LFO type vibrato. The other thing to remember is that a non-vibrato sample with an LFO vibrato will not sound the same as a recorded vibrato, due to the fact that a violin reacts differently to a player using vibrato, causing different sympathetic vibrations. Don't get me wrong, a virtual instruments that can accomplish all of this would be great, but I think that it is a lot more complicated that it appears on the surface. There are also many other things that need to be addressed, such as bow changes and change of position patches. Currently we are a long way away from all that.

    DG

  • So I take it you're not too keen on the Strad or the Gof then DG? I have heard some pretty impressive demos of the Strad in particular and the mod wheel vibrato is the best I've come across to date, but then my experience of all available libraries is limited. They do feature bow changes though they aren't very noticeable. In the hands of an accomplished player, which I am not, they are good instruments, IMO, particularly in a live performance setting. They obviously lack the variety of the VSL solo instruments but I believe those instruments could be enhanced somewhat by the addition of a similar ability to control and vary vibrato...Colin

  • The vibrato on the Strad is very lifelike - it's based on convolution technology rather than adding a synthetic pitch wobble to the samples. I can't see VSL going in that direction at this stage, having spent so much time and effort providing vib, non-vib and progressive vib versions of so many instruments. Also I doubt the Strad technique would work on ensembles, where every player employs a different vibrato.


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    @ct1961 said:

    So I take it you're not too keen on the Strad or the Gof then DG?

    Colin

    Having played the violin for well over 30 years, I have very strong opinions about string samples.

    DG

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    @Conquer said:

    The vibrato on the Strad is very lifelike -

    I think it sound horrible, but as I said above, I have strong views on this sort of thing.


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    @nunodariosa@gmail.com said:

    Of course realism is why I bought VSL. But the thing is that I don't have vib or non vib (Inever sai I only wanted to add vib, I want also to subtract- even if you're just contrasting, ex:I may want to add just to subtract it on the next passage foor a more ethereal music with no vib,etc) The problem is VSL SE bundle standard I bought has no vib or non vib patches. Thanks! Regards to all!
     

    Yes it's right, that the SE have no different Patches with Vibrato and Non-Vibrato, so no different namings.

    For the orchestral strings you can try following.

    The orchestral in SE Standard all have no vibrato. But the solo strings have.

    So load the orchestral string patch in the upper cell and the corresponding solo string patch to the lower part of cell. Activate the crossfading between upper and lower part. With the Cell-XF fader you can mix the sound of the two parts. So you're able to mix the vibrato solo string with the non-vibrato orchestra strings.

    If you assign a midi cc to the Cell-XF fader you can smoothly add the solo string with its vibrato to the orchestra strings.

    Maybe you will have to adjust volume and attack time of the solo string with the cell edit feature.

    Hope this helps to achieve a bit more realistic string to your needs. If not, you'll have to buy one of the bigger packages of VSL. 


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    @DG said:

    Having played the violin for well over 30 years, I have very strong opinions about string samples.

    DG

     

    Understood. Your ear should be a little more tuned in than mine in that respect. Still, I enjoy playing it, but it is pretty difficult to get a good [fairly] realistic sound unless you're a decent keys player. 

    Colin


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    @Conquer said:

    The vibrato on the Strad is very lifelike -

    I think it sound horrible, but as I said above, I have strong views on this sort of thing.

    But if you have very strong strong views: don't you think every sampled, physically modelled or covoluted (or whatever they might invent in the future) instrument sounds more or less horrible (with a wide range of horror or joy of course) or is not as flexible as you wish for. What is indisputable though, is the great playability of those new lines of instruments with not so many samples, but more tweaking. I agree, that it's not soon going to happen with a string section, but also not impossible. One thing is for sure: the VI host was a great step in playability. But still: Wallander Instruments, the Trumpet - not as much Garritan Violin and Cello (the winds seem to be better suited for this kind of thing) - have made the best attempt in this direction. There are way not enough instruments in that quality out there to put an orchestra together, so VSL is still the best choice. But I have strong views on this: If VSL is not trying to integrate that kind of technology into their products, the future will belong to others. Of course I'm pretty sure they already plan on some VI2 with that kind of thing. If not: One vote for it on the wish list for the : )

  • DG, on the question of realism I defer to (and respect) your long experience playing the instrument. But would you not agree that the Strad vibrato sounds more real than LFO pitch modulation? I guess you've experimented with the Strad yourself?