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  4. New sound set for Sibelius: Appassionata Strings
  • M
    M

    Fantastic. Thanks!

    Mahlon
  • D
    D
    Sorry, I don't use sibelius. What are these Sound Sets for?

    Thanks,
    DM
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Sound sets convert articulation marks in Sibelius to MIDI control data for the Vienna Instruments (or other VST- and AUinstruments). This way patch changes get automated by the score.

    If you don't use Sibelius, you don't need sound sets. [;)]

    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • D
    D
    How can the sound sets match every articulation in VSL?

    There would be so many overlaps, am I wrong?

    For instance, when you draw a slur how does Sib know you want a 2layer or 4layer
    patch?

    And does this mean that every patch has to be loaded into the VI?

    I can see the benefit though. There is much less patch/matrix/preset loading
    but I'm not seeing the full picture yet.

    I use a sequencer because my "mock-ups" are the final product. No live players to print out parts for.

    But, it would be nice to have a good looking score for publishing purposes.

    Can a score sound good in sibelius like in a standard sequencer?
    Sounds like a stupid question but in a sequencer I can nudge notes around, there is controller
    data to shape the music...there just seems to be more flexibility.

    Are you guys using Sib because you need to print parts out for players? or is it
    a superior medium (in your opinion) compared to a sequencer?

    Thanks,
    DM
  • A
    A
    last edited
    last edited

    @Another User said:

    or is it a superior medium (in your opinion) compared to a sequencer?

    No. A DAW will always be better if you want to produce mockups in your studio.

    A notation software will always produce better notated scores.

    I think most will agree with these guidelines:

    - If you are composing for real musicians or a real orchestra - use Sibelius or Finale

    - If you are producing mockups - use a DAW

    Btw, if you are planning on publishing anything at all, you really have no other option than to use Sib or Finale. Or hire someone to do the scoring for you. Although some DAWs have notation capabilities they are not sophisticated enough to be accepted by any publisher I know.

    /A

  • D
    D
    Thanks for your answers!

    I guess I'll stick with my DAW.

    If I had the skills I'd code a VSL, rules based notation program.

    Something similar to Notion but using VSL samples and an open archecture so we could use other VI's as well. It would include MIDI-orchestration rules based on instruments and their idiosyncratic features and, rules based on MIDI performance techniques...basically all the things we have to think about while making mock-ups or composing.

    Rules we have come to use and do manually to make the phrases sound like real humans but take hours to achieve.

    Many of us are fast composers but making the music SOUND good with samples and computers takes twice as long as composing the music in the first place. The software is the bottleneck.

    I'm always looking for ways of speeding up this process but there doesn't seem to be an elegant solution for it (yet).

    In notation programs the music looks great but there are performance limitations.
    In a DAW the music looks like crap but can playback more realistically yet it takes hours of tweaking per 1 minute of orchestral music.

    I think we are all frustrated with this.

    Its a damper on creativity to compose and at the sametime have to think about so many MIDI performance processes to make the music sound good. Keyswitches, modwheel, pitchwheel, two foot controllers, breath controller, ribbon controller, V-Span, H-Span, A/B switch, X-Cell Fade, X-Velocity Fade, Expression, Patches, Matricies, Presets, ADSR,...thats a lot of stuff to think about.

    I'm not complaining about VSL, I love VSL and I thank the universe everyday for hatching them. They solved many of my problems. This is just one of the last lingering challenges that needs to be conquered.

    If I was part of VSL product development team such a notation program would be first on the list of new products. Why? Because it would make using their samples a breeze and there would be even less competition, plus the users would be able to make better music quicker resulting in happier customers who'll buy more VSL products because they'll get paid sooner since their projects get finished faster.

    Less time + faster rendering = more $$ in all of our pockets

    Whats up VSL?

    You guys are in a position where you can take over the world of orchestral sampling with this type of notation product yet we are on the brink of seeing more complex and difficult to use products...MIR, Choirs (which I can't wait for and am bitting at the bit).

    But a notation product of this sort would make you the undisputed champion of the sampling industry and make all of our lives easier.

    Thats it I'm done, time go back to my little cell and wait for a keyswitch :-)

    DM
  • M
    M

     Sibelius with the sound sets is the closest current approximation to your dream and that's why I'm directly composing in Sibelius

  • S
    S

    Hi Andi

    Appass soundset working brilliantly  - thanks!

    Now, I do not have the muted Appass yet. Does the soundset switch from open to muted? If so, do I load the muted samples into a diff. instrument or is there a way to put them in the same instr?

    Cheers

    Steve 
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hi Steve!

    There are presets which use both Appassionata Strings collections and presets which use only the first collection. The presets for both collections combine patches with and without sordino in one instrument. The sound set will automatically switch to the muted samples if you write muted or con sordino.

    Best wishes,

    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • S
    S

    Thanks Andi - that clears that up!

    The only problem is that now I've seen certain features of your soundset eg the way it handles the diff legato speeds ie vertically, I need to go back to my other edited sets to get the same things to work there! ie in the SE set if I try to use the two legato patched (normal and fast  - which I have from the single instrument downloads) the vertical span idea doesn't work as it then stays on the lower vertical cell when changing to another horiz. patch!

    Oh well - just need to find some time to do it  - at least now I know how!

    steve
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hi Steve!

    You can still use other sound sets if you just activate further instances of Vienna Ensemble. For example the Appassionata sound set on VE instance 1 and the SE sound set on VE instance 2.

    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • S
    S

    Andi

    You misunderstand me

    I am using 5 instances of VE with various different soundsets - some yours/sibelius's, some my own.

    My point was that I have been modifying the SE one to suit me - ie adding things like Bass trumpet and Alto tromb as and when I've downloaded the single instruments - but haven't managed to get the different legato patches to change on variation of speed. Now I have seen your preset for appass (which of course is markedly different from the SE presets in the placement of the key switches) I can see how it would work. I just have to build new presets!       

    Thanks for all you're doing in the sib/VSL world

    Steve
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Ok. Thanks for clearing it up. Now I understand... [;)]

    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • S
    S

    Andi

    Please help soon if you can....

    With your assurance that adding the appass 2 would be simple I have bought the Appass 2 strings to use for a project for tomorrow (Tues)

    Now the soundset is great EXCEPT I "only" have the L1 of both Appass I and II

    It seems you have provided presets for normal L1, normal L1 and L2, and normal L1 and 2 + muted L1 and 2.

    I have tried to sort out a preset to do the same as the L1 but for normal and sordino but I don't really understand what the controller 3 does etc.

    help?

    steve
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hi Steve!

    Please load the "L2+II" presets that came with the sound set. Substitute all patches that remain silent during playback. These are the L2 patches, that you don't have.

    You will probably have to make the following changes:
    C0: make the H-Span only one cell (no 2A, 2B)
    D0/1A,2A substitute with perf-legato

    All the best,
    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • S
    S

    Done

    Thanks so much

    I even sorted out the legato - fast legato change for both muted and non too!

    At some point I'll completely get to grips with VI and VE!!

    Thanks again for your help - Dvorak's Song to the Moon shall have muted strings!

    Steve  
  • S
    S

    Andi

    OK - last (hopefully) question.....

    I can't get the portamento to trigger - followed the instructions in the "readme" re playback dictionary changes but still no portamento

    Any ideas.

    Sorry... :)

    Steve
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hi Steve!

    With which sound set are you having the troubles with portamento?
    Anyway, with adding the Sound ID Change "+portamento" in Play/Dictionary/Staff Lines/portamento until end of last note under line it should work.
    For this to take effect, you have to draw a portamento-line.

    Best,
    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library
  • S
    S

    Hi Andi

    As I said I followed your intructions in the "read me" to the letter

    I then draw the port line (and I have tried the same with the gliss line) and do not get the control change for port.

    Maybe then I need to check that I am doing things correctly with regards to the Sib side of things inputting the port line there

    Steve  
  • andiA
    VSL Team
    andiA

    Hi Steve!

    That's odd. It should work perfectly well then.
    One thing that comes to my mind: When the sound ID of the instrument you choose in Sibelius and the Sound ID of the program you choose in the Manual Sound Sets tab are not the same, keyswitches and control changes often do not work correctly. For example the Sibelius instrument "Solo Violin" has the Sound ID "strings.violin" and the Program "Appassionata Violins" has the Sound ID "strings.violin.ensemble". So these two combined will not work properly.

    You can find (and change) the Sound IDs of the Sibelius instruments in House Style/Edit instruments/Edit instrument/Best Sound.

    If all articulation changes work well and portamento is the only one which doesn't, the instrument Sound IDs are probably not the problem.

    If you want to, you can send me your Sibelius file and your playback configuration and I take a look at it.
    You find the playback configuration at the following location:
    Documents and Settings\user\Application Data\Sibelius Software\Sibelius 5\Playback Configurations

    It consists of an xml-file and a folder with the same name.

    Best,
    Andi

    Vienna Symphonic Library