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  • That is interesting jbm, though I wasn't able to listen.  I don't think that the fact that the sampled performance is playable live is a drawback.  In fact, a system for work that seems very desirable is the creation of new music which the composer can realize immediately - with samples - and even release that as a recording, but he is not cut off from live acoustic performance the way a purely electronic musician is because it can also be written out and performed in the traditional way. 


  • Yes, I think that's partly why I sort of gravitated toward "playable" writing; I hadn't really decided for sure that this would be strictly recording-based music. I was still hedging my bets, in a sense, and leaving the potential for performance open.

    But I am interested in seeing what I will come up with in writing a strictly "virtual" kind of music - something that simply *can't* be played live. It's an interesting challenge, to me. And I'm also curious what sorts of sounds can be made using VSL as a starting-point. That is, using sampled orchestral instruments as a sort of "raw waveform" for producing new sounds. I've used a process like this in creating music for contemporary dance, in the past, but I think there's still loads of room for exploration...

    cheers,

    J.

  • William Her's the link you wanted. This Cd can be purchased at all major retail outlets. I-Tunes, Cd baby ..etc.. This link is to Last.FM in which one can hear the complete CD Free. Ther's 7 Movements to This Quintet. All in which was completed on VSL Pro edition. Complete Score is Available. 436 pages. I wrote performed and produced it in Logic pro 7 .........http://www.last.fm/music/Robert+Kaye/Quintet%2BNo%2B2%2B%252F%2BString%2BQuartet%2B%2526%2BPiano?autostart

  •  Artistic tapestry, anyway:

    http://www.synestesia.com/


  • But I am interested in seeing what I will come up with in writing a strictly "virtual" kind of music - something that simply *can't* be played live. -jbm

    I am also interested in this as there are many things that samples can do - contrary to what people usually state - that live players cannot or don't want to do.  For  example, immensely long droning tones,  extended high registers, different tunings, impossible combinations of time signatures, etc.  All of this is not only practical with samples, it is child's play.  So to use those things specifically is very important. I feel that certain compsoers of the past like Ligetti were writing things like that before samples existed...


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    @William said:

    ...For  example, immensely long droning tones,  extended high registers, different tunings, impossible combinations of time signatures, etc.  All of this is not only practical with samples, it is child's play...



    Ah, too true! And what's really curious is that, if you went ahead and wrote some fantastic music this way, players of the future would probably drive themselves like dogs trying to master the technique necessary to pull it off! 😉

    J.

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    @jbm said:


    But I am interested in seeing what I will come up with in writing a strictly "virtual" kind of music - something that simply *can't* be played live. .
     

    Here you wiil find one key piano glissandos:

    http://www.kolumbus.fi/lauri.grohn/exp/experiments1.html

    Birds:

    http://www.kolumbus.fi/lauri.grohn/exp/birds2.mp3


  • "But I am interested in seeing what I will come up with in writing a strictly "virtual" kind of music - something that simply *can't* be played live." - jbm

    I would say that about 95% of what is written for samples cannot be played live.

    Not because it is new and original as jbm is  thinking (quite admirably), but for a much more mundane reason, the same reason that 95% of film ideas cannot be filmed.

    Commerce.

    The unfortunate fact is, live symphony orchestras cost a huge amount of money. And most composers who get their music played are mainly businessmen who know how to sell and promote.  Far more than they know how to compose in most cases.  The greatest composers are utter klutzes when it comes to promotion and selling.  Just look at the entire history of music -  Schubert's 9th symphony sitting in a drawer for years after he died is the one that sticks in my craw - and you will understand what I mean.

    So that is what I ultimately mean about using samples for art - it is a revolution in that it allows people to bypass this degradation by money that has existed throughout all the history of music. 


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    @William said:

    The unfortunate fact is, live symphony orchestras cost a huge amount of money. And most composers who get their music played are mainly businessmen who know how to sell and promote.  Far more than they know how to compose in most cases.  The greatest composers are utter klutzes when it comes to promotion and selling.  Just look at the entire history of music -  Schubert's 9th symphony sitting in a drawer for years after he died is the one that sticks in my craw - and you will understand what I mean.

    So that is what I ultimately mean about using samples for art - it is a revolution in that it allows people to bypass this degradation by money that has existed throughout all the history of music. 

     

    There seems to be businessmen who realise music by using samples for composer businessmen who sell they products to film directors.


  •  What do you mean?


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    @William said:

     What do you mean?

     

    There really are people who are not composers but who create VSL music used in real movies from scores of composers.


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    Hi all.

    @vibrato said:

    Depends on what is the classification of a composer?
    I would say someone who creates, either on paper or in audio form (or both), music from their imagination. If you realise an audio rendition of music from someone else's score, you a programmer, not a composer. However, if you invent and program a musical sequence using samples, you are composing. Please note that I'm making no value judgements here, merely suggesting a definition of 'composer'.


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    @vibrato said:

    Depends on what is the classification of a composer?
    I would say someone who creates, either on paper or in audio form (or both), music from their imagination. If you realise an audio rendition of music from someone else's score, you a programmer, not a composer. However, if you invent and program a musical sequence using samples, you are composing. Please note that I'm making no value judgements here, merely suggesting a definition of 'composer'.

     

    Perhaps I was not clear enough. The time tables for film music are very tight. There are people who render the score (created by a composer) to music to be used as such in films. Why, in fact, the composer should his time for this "playing" of the music? Of course he has the final word. So there is composing ART; and performance ART using VSL etc. May be in the future only amateurs do the both phases themselves?


  •  I don't think that will happen, because it is cheaper to have one guy do both.


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    @William said:

     I don't think that will happen, because it is cheaper to have one guy do both.

     

    For professional film composers it time not cheapness that matters. Amateurs are different.


  •  Oh yeah? Tell that to any producer and he will laugh you out of the room.


  •  Of course I am a very cheap professional.  I am not in the luxury league of hot shot composers who get everything they want.  However, without showing a case of sour grapes I must add I never had much admiration for those composers, with the exception of three - John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith  and Miklos Rosza.  You notice I did not list Bernard Herrmann the greatest film composer of all. Because many of his scores were done with low budgets. For example, De Palma's Sisters in which Herrmann's fee was the largest item in the budget.  The orchestra was quite small. Or many of his television scores, in which he simply had to write for lower budgets.  Another example of a great professional who used low budget brilliantly was Roy Webb, who wrote around 300 film scores, and his best were the Val Lewton series in the 40s, in which he had at his command about 12 strings, 4 brass, 2 percussion and 7 woodwinds.  And they are among the most inventive orchestrations of the time. 


  •  Didn't see the word "future". But it is already happening.


  • Perhaps mimicing western culture in India has come to its end?

  • Mimicing western culture?  That is total bullshit. Bollywood is its own world, with its own style that is very charcteristic of the storytelling of India and is not a mere mimic of Hollywood, if that is what that bigoted statement refers to.

    Also, what vibrato is talking about actually sounds the same as what happens here, with budgets being cut, etc.  It is only on the biggest union films that things are different.