Mike:

Loved your mock-up and intend to use it a reference. 

@mverta said:

I have a ton of other things which I do regularly as part of the discipline, but they're not directly related to speed.

I would love to know what other things you do as part of your discipline. I am a composer/arranger/orchestrator and work almost exclusively with live situations. Also, no film/TV experience/knowledge at all. Mostly Musical Theatre, Stage Shows and "Art" music. Am always looking for more ways to study, practice, train, etc.

Thanks in advance for any info you chooose to share.

Be Well,

Poppa

I have many "routines."  Here's one: If I'm not on a project, one thing I will do is wake up, select a minute or two of random music (today's was Janacek's Sinfonietta: II) on my ipod, and listen to it over and over for an hour during cardio at the gym. Then after I get back, I'll attempt to notate it from memory.  I don't have absolute/perfect pitch, so I allow myself a starting note, but I try not to use the piano for guidance as much as is possible.  I'll usually spend an hour-and-a-half to two hours on this, and then check it against the actual score.  Because of anomalies in recordings, I don't think it's possible to ever truly get 100%, but the closer the better.  This has many advantages: ear training, orchestration, familiarity with the lexicon, penmanship, speed, and discovery of my own ear's biases (the way I "mishear" things in my own mind).  I do this in pencil, and watch myself make the corrections on my score to match the original.  Then I usually do an hour or two of speed sightreading exercises to keep sharp - all clefs, transpositions, so I can think in real-time no matter what instrument I'm dealing with.  Then usually I pick a movie to watch, and turn off the sound, but turn on the subtitles. I make a cue sheet for it, guessing what the entrances/exits will be, and notations for my first instincts as to the drama. Then I watch it down again with sound to compare.  No matter which director's work you're talking about, Western films have alarmingly predictable edit structure, and this helps me hone my sense for overall flow and presence of music, by-and-large.  After that, it's usually a few hours of just free-form writing, but one thing I always do is finish whatever I start.  Sometimes it's just a simple quartet piece, or a reworking of a familiar song (on the 4th of July, I did a thing around our national anthem, for example).  Between that stuff, shower and meals, etc., it's usually an 17-20 hour day, and then I do a different set of things the next day.

The training isn't really in the method - it's in the approach.  I look for weaknesses and work them.  I have many weaknesses :)

_Mike

Breakfast after; fasted cardio is the only way to go :P

_Mike

@mverta said:

I have many "routines."  Here's one: If I'm not on a project, one thing I will do is wake up, select a minute or two of random music (today's was Janacek's Sinfonietta: II) on my ipod, and listen to it over and over for an hour during cardio at the gym. Then after I get back, I'll attempt to notate it from memory.  I don't have absolute/perfect pitch, so I allow myself a starting note, but I try not to use the piano for guidance as much as is possible.  I'll usually spend an hour-and-a-half to two hours on this, and then check it against the actual score.  Because of anomalies in recordings, I don't think it's possible to ever truly get 100%, but the closer the better.  This has many advantages: ear training, orchestration, familiarity with the lexicon, penmanship, speed, and discovery of my own ear's biases (the way I "mishear" things in my own mind).  I do this in pencil, and watch myself make the corrections on my score to match the original.  Then I usually do an hour or two of speed sightreading exercises to keep sharp - all clefs, transpositions, so I can think in real-time no matter what instrument I'm dealing with.  Then usually I pick a movie to watch, and turn off the sound, but turn on the subtitles. I make a cue sheet for it, guessing what the entrances/exits will be, and notations for my first instincts as to the drama. Then I watch it down again with sound to compare.  No matter which director's work you're talking about, Western films have alarmingly predictable edit structure, and this helps me hone my sense for overall flow and presence of music, by-and-large.  After that, it's usually a few hours of just free-form writing, but one thing I always do is finish whatever I start.  Sometimes it's just a simple quartet piece, or a reworking of a familiar song (on the 4th of July, I did a thing around our national anthem, for example).  Between that stuff, shower and meals, etc., it's usually an 17-20 hour day, and then I do a different set of things the next day.

The training isn't really in the method - it's in the approach.  I look for weaknesses and work them.  I have many weaknesses 😊

_Mike

... but on weekends you are golfing, don't you?

.

I'm unfamiliar with this concept of "weekend.":)

_Mike

@Mike Verta said:

one thing I will do is wake up, select a minute or two of random music (today's was Janacek's Sinfonietta: II) on my ipod, and listen to it over and over for an hour during cardio at the gym. Then after I get back, I'll attempt to notate it from memory.  I don't have absolute/perfect pitch, so I allow myself a starting note, but I try not to use the piano for guidance as much as is possible.

Mike:

I love this idea! I go the gym every day and virtually always do an hour of cardio as part of my workout routine. I usually don't listen to anything so I could definitely add this exercise. I also don't have absolute pitch but am very good at dictation and inner ear hearing. I usually do all my scores at my desk without a piano and until 2+ years ago, did everythng by hand. Now, I use Sibelius and use the QWERTY keyboard, which is slower than a piano keyboard but still feels like writing by hand. I can see that it would take a while to get to the point where I would be reliable at your type of memorized dictation but, since I'm there at the gym every day anyway, why not? I can start with simpler pieces and build up. Cool idea and definitely will be added to my routine.

Questions: What are you using as a source for your speed sight reading exercices? Do you mean that you read and play a keyboard doing the transpositions? I do something like this with Practica Musica but it's a bit limited. Agreed, it is very useful to be able to think in terms of the transposed instruments and multiple clefs in real time when you work with live musicians a lot.

Thanks.

Be well,

Poppa

Oh, for speed sight stuff I just grab anything...  And yes, I mean I read and play keyboard doing the transpositions...

_Mike

.

Hi Mike, your mock-up is terrific and I think you have huge talent - not just for music, but I'm willing to bet if you focus exclusively on that you will become a leading film composer over the next ten years. Would you consider posting the score to your amazing Star Trek re-working online as an educational resource?

@mverta said:

I use legato violins (3 layers with MW control, AA) and sometimes layered with Legato AA R

P.S. Hermann is great, but I must say I preferred his early work with The Hermits.

Yes, they're SI Giga patches. 

As for posting the score - I'm not territorial or secretive about my work (I think that's obvious by this point),and I've gotten a lot of requests for this.  My speedscore™ [:)] sketches have a lot of shorthand in them, and I don't have a scanner big enough to fit the pages on, so I'd have to clean-up and re-enter stuff in Finale; a lot of work, which I'd have to do between projects.  Might take a while....

_Mike

Thanks Mike, I'm sure it will be of great interest to a lot of the folks here if you find time to do it. In the meantime, best of luck with your current projects!

Thanks... and thanks also for the extremely kind words!

_Mike

...hey Mike,

Wow, just fantastic work!  I don't know about anyone else, but would you be willing to scan a couple of sections of your handwritten speed score.  For me, that would be the most interesting of all, just to see how you work, what you put in a sketch, which parts, melodies, harmonies you notate to start with, how detailed you get, etc., etc., etc.

Thanks again for a really great experience (and your website is terrific too :)

Hi Mike!

I've been following this thread for a couple of days now,

and after all these superlatives about your person, what kind of paper you write your scores, breakfast, your daily working routines up to 20 hours a day, how fast you did the star treck mock up, working as a pro since the age of 15, your terrific website and so on...you seem to be an incredibly sucessful and super talented composer....

I agree with the others, there is a genius among us.

Just one question:

Do you really need so much attention and praises,

watching your video on your website there are even more of this kind,

how can you bear this super hype?

Beeing super busy you have so much time to maintain this self-celebration on this site?

A little bit more modesty would make you more human, let your good music speak for yourself!

Some folks may think I am just jealous, I'm not, I call myself a composer in a certain way though I am a cello player.

My compositions and my concerts speak for myself, if it's good or bad is up to the listener and the audience, a bit of self-confidence and self-promotion is necessary, but after reading your posts and the whole celebration in this thread I have the impression that you are unreachable.

You seem to be a very powerful person with lot of energy and verve, I am sure you are a nice fellow, so don't take this as an attack, maybe it's just a provocation to add some pepper to this rather monotonous thread.

Respect anyway for your work!

christof

www.christofunterberger.com

I'm not really sure what your point is.  People asked me about my training regimen.  It might not be a typical one, but I don't think doing basic exercises comprises anything special, certainly not "super hype."   I don't particularly take pride in it, it's just how I practice.

The video on my site was taken from a behind-the-scenes segment of a film I worked on; I had nothing to do with its content or creation, but I was flattered by the things said by some musicians I respect a great deal.  I don't maintain my own website (because ironically enough, I really loathe self-promotion) but I agreed it was a good piece to put up there.

As it is, I'm extremely critical of myself and my work, and I hardly feel like I'm "all that."  I'm certainly not "unreachable."  But this is what I do, all I do, and all I've ever wanted to do.  Maybe you're not jealous, but maybe you have similar goals to me, but aren't doing as much to reach them.  I don't know.  People judge my work every day. You know, lots of people hated the Star Trek piece so badly they said they wished my fingers were crushed and I went deaf so I couldn't pollute the world with crap like that anymore.

I always hope people enjoy my work, and I hope they find something useful in my practice habits, experience or discipline.  Lord knows I learn something from composers infinitely more talented than myself every day (was listening to masterful Stravinsky this afternoon).  I still look at most of the greatest pieces in the lexicon as being nearly magical in their beauty, and see myself as a distant but dilligent student.

Not sure what else to say, really.  Glad you liked the work.  If you don't like the nice things people in this thread have said, perhaps you should take it up with them.

_Mike

 Hi Mike!

Thanks for the good explenation,

I hoped to hear something like that.

I agree with what people say about you, it was just a bit strange to read so much euphorically comments,

Maybe I am a bit over-sensitive with things like that, you may be right, at the moment I have a fight inside between my career as cellist and my sucesses as composer.Can't find a good balance, because each of them requires hard training and discipline and much time and energy.And I want to do both of them!

So don't take my first post too serious.

I wish you all the best in your music endeavors!

christof

Well, I learned long ago not to diminish people's compliments - it makes them feel bad, and there's no reason to do that.  Just say thank you, and be glad for it.  But I also think that people get a bit EXTRA excited when they hear somebody using the same equipment, who's a similar age, etc., do something they like, becuase it probably means they can, too. It makes our goals and dreams somehow more reachable, when just a "regular" person does something inspiring.  Most of us look at the great composers as almost mythical heroes, and in a lot of ways, they were.  They were younger, they were better, they wrote music that transformed and transcended and is still with us, etc.  It's inspiring, but it can also be depressing.  You think, "If he was that good at 20, a hundred years ago, and I'm not half as good at 35, what does that say about me?"  And this brings me to what I think we are sorely lacking as a community, which is true peer support.  There aren't really that many of us; certainly few with any real training or discipline, and music is suffering because of it.  So I think when one of us does something the rest like, it just makes the whole thing seem more possible, and more real.  I think that's some of what is behind the occasional over-the-top praise.  But also, music has a way of bringing out our emotions, doesn't it!  Either way, they're compliments, they are wonderful to hear, and they actually make me want to work harder.  I practice all the time because I think I'm so far from where I want to be, so I appreciate the support, too.  Doing good work is hard for all of us, no matter how much talent you have.  So it's all good.

_Mike

I like your attitude!

What you write in your last post sounds very convincing.

You know, I get some good feedback on my music, even from some big guys in LA.

At the beginning of my music writing I diminished their compliments because I thought they are not honest or either say anything just to be kind.

After they asked me to work for them I was embarrased because I wasn't honest enough to say 'thank you for the kind words'.

This is a very sensitive area.

Your attitude is a good mix of modesty and self-confidence.Not easy to learn.

Glad my very first posting lead into this direction, sorry again!

christof

...I'm not sure why anyone would complain that someone is getting too praise.  I understand there's no jealousy involved, but sheesh.  If someone's music is good, or great, are we supposed to mute our praise or invent quibbles and complaints?  [Edit]Sound That would make us just like a lot of producers I've run into who feel that if they don't find something wrong or if they don't put in their two cents worth, they've not done their job correctly. :P

And regarding getting a peek at your speedscore, Mike, I hope you didn't just gloss over that part.  I think I can speak for everyone in the music community, whether we notate or just improvise, there's something special about seeing the handwritten scores by the masters that include their scribbles and scratches and notes crossed out and corrected (though in deference to christof, I am NOT comparing Mike to one of those venerable masters :)