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  4. VE using only two cores in Logic
  • S
    S

     Before considering running multiple VE Standalones you need to have hardware that will support doing this. In my experience, for example, with a dual 2.5GHz G5, I ran out of CPU power before running out of RAM. Using multiple standalones should work much better on an 8 processor MacPro. 

    To run multiple VE standalones:

    1. Duplicate the VE application in the finder (select the VE application, then choose "duplicate" - - or use the keyboard command "command-d")

    2. Rename the duplicated application.

    3. Open the original application, then open the renamed duplicate application.

    In its current iteration you can, according to VSL Support, open 3 standalone instances of VE 2.

    For the MIDI input of the standalones, open AudioMIDI Setup (found in the Utilities folder) click on te MIDI Tab if it is not already selected, Double click on the IAC driver, a dialog box will open make sure that "Device is Online" is checked. Click on the "Ports Tab" and create as many IAC busses as you will need (presumably 3).

    Assign MIDI input on the first instrument in the first standalone to IAC Bus 1 and Channel 1. As you add instruments to the standalone they will, the latest version of VE 2, automatically get assigned in sequence if the preceding instrument is selected. (If Instrument 1 is selected then when you click Insert Instrument, Instrument 2 will be assigned to IAC Bus 1/Channel 2.)

    Audio routing back into the DAW is accomplished either by hardware connection as I described earlier or, if you are using and RME or Apogee Symphony card based audio interface, with the software that accompanies those interfaces. (the Apogee Ensemble and Duet do not allow software routing.) There are also two 3rd party applications that are intended for this purpose.

    Soundflower (made by Cycling 74) - - which, in my experience, was unusable because of frequent digital artifacts (clicks and pops) during playback.

    JackOSX - - some people have reported success with this, but I have never gotten it to work - - no doubt it is my own fault, but I found the software interface not particularly intuitive.  
  • N
    N
    If you want to run multiple VE instances, then yes, you need to use IAC MIDI busses and route the audio in using Soundflower or an audio interface's loopback mode. But that's the only difference - when you launch the plug-in, VE is running as a program outside Logic. It has its own RAM space, and you can save the Project (i.e. the total state of VE) and open it from the stand-alone version independently. Then there's the added advantage that it *does* open with the session and you don't have to load the .viframe file.<>
    So I personally don't run multiple VEs in my template. One plus four V.I players inside Logic + some original VSL on a slave machine is enough, and if I need to open anything else I have room in the VE or inside Logic. However my orchestra isn't only VSL, so that's probably just moi.
  • N
    N
    I should add that I've had no issues using Soundflower or the loopback mode in either an RME or Metric Halo interface, but Jack OS X never came close to working for me.
  • muziksculpM
    muziksculpM
    Thank You for the info regarding using multiple stand-alone instances of VE.

    I will be using the Apogee "Symphony System", which offers a powerful internal audio busing system called (V-Bus), it offers 32 internal (V-Bus) channels to route audio from any stand-alone core audio application to another, with zero latency !

    Alternatively, using Soundflower, or the Loop-back feature of an audio interface (if it offers that option) are two other ways to handle audio routing from a stand-alone application to a DAW.
  • J
    J
    Just a reminder to the VSL people. My issues have not yet been adressed.
  • cmC
    VSL Team
    cmC

    you wtote above: *i don't use an audio interface* ... this makes me assume you're using built-in audio ... probably this device can only use one core and so the underlying applications are restricted too ...

    christian

    and remember: only a CRAY can run an endless loop in just three seconds.
  • J
    J
    I am using the built-in audio of the Mac Pro.
    Logic uses all cores if i use multiple instances of the Vienna Instrument instead of Vienna Ensemble. Shouldn't this "one core" limit apply to that as well. Logic is using two cores for Vienna Ensemble though.
  • C
    C

    Hi Johannet,

    The Vienna Ensemble Application does use all cores but all Audiostreams arriving in the Plug-in from a VE are more or less handled by one core.

    So in short: VE itself is multithreaded but the plug-in only to a certain part. You can see this by opening a standalone VE and inserting about the same amount of VI´s as you have in your Logic song and play them via IACBus. Then open the Activity monitor and have a look at the CPU meter, which displays all the different core loads (command 2). You will notice an equal spread of the load to all available cores.

    As I already explained in another thread (http://community.vsl.co.at/forums/t/18817.aspx) at the moment there is a limit of audio data transfer between applications given by the system itself.

    All audio programers who tried to do this have stumbled across this.

    The developers at Apple never thought that one would like to route more than, lets say 4 tracks (2 stereo) from one app to another. e.g. it is certainly no problem to route back a stereo signal from iTunes into Logic, but this is just one stereo stream. We would like to have at least 32 stereo streams.

    All I can say now is, that there is a technologie which makes this possible and we will implement it as soon as possible, because we want it to work for everyone and not just for a small amount of useres matching some specific criteria.

    As the thread "VE2 standalone - sending multiple outputs back into logic" deals basicly with the same issues, I will answer some questions there also. So have a look there also.

    best

    christianK 
  • H
    H
    last edited
    last edited

    @Johannet said:

    I am using the built-in audio of the Mac Pro.
    Logic uses all cores if i use multiple instances of the Vienna Instrument instead of Vienna Ensemble. Shouldn't this "one core" limit apply to that as well. Logic is using two cores for Vienna Ensemble though.
    One thing you can try to do is to use the Logic Nodes system. This was a trick we used to use on the Quad G5 when Logic didn't have the capacity to use more than two cores ... and what this did was to force logic into using more than two cores for handling FX and stuff. I still use this technique nowadays when for some strange reason logic gets all hung up and won't render things right. . So the Nodes is something you have to install seperately .. it came with your Logic program .. and is probably hiding as an installer in your utilities folder .. if it's not there then it's on the discs somewhere. Anyways .. install it (make sure it's the current version - updatable from apple) And then in logic you'll need to go into your preferences - Audio - Nodes .. menu and hit enable nodes ... and then chose the name of your machine. This system is intended to connect of course to other computers .. but on a machine with more than two cores it can connect to itself. So this sort of loops the processing power back to logic. . Then only thing you have to do in to launch the nodes app .. and leave it running whilst logic is on. This may help you out. although your problem seems to possibly indicate a problem with one of your processors. VE and Logic should run using ll the systems resources. So I'd say if the nodes do nothing for you .. you might wanna have Apple check out your machine and make sure that the CPU's are actually fine. (IT's been known to happen that apples function for years with only one processor running whilst the other is damaged and it causes glitches but mostly people don't notice it cos the machine reports the processor as running okay. . So give that a go.
  • N
    N
    "All audio programers who tried to do this have stumbled across this."


    That might explain why so many people are having problems with Soundflower and others aren't.

    To me this sounds like a really good reason to use a hardware loopback feature rather than Soundflower.

    Question (since I don't have an 8-core machine): if you run third-party plug-ins in VE, are they also split among processors?
  • E
    E

     I just read this thread after doing a search. I have exactly the same problem as Johannet.

    I have a Mac Pro with 8 intel processors at 2.8ghz, 16 gb ram and running OSX 10.5.3.

    I'm using the internal audio that came with the computer.

    I'm running three instances of VE2 as plugins in Logic 8. VE2 seems to only use a couple processors and I have confirmed this through Activity Monitor. I'm able to get round the problem by using separate vienna instruments as plug ins.

    It's still great because I can put all the strings on VE2 and then other instruments can be played as separate vienna instrument plug ins. It would be nice to play everything through VE2 though.

    I'm pretty sure there is nothing wrong with my machine as I recently had it repaired and checked out in an apple store (had a problem with the memory).

  • C
    C

    Hi! 

    I already gave an explanation to that issue on page 2.

    Best regards,

    christian K