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  • Comments Please

    C
    C
    I would really appreciate some critique on a new piece I have done, and its mix. This is by far the biggest project I have done so far, and mixing everything together nicely was very hard for me. The piece has a large amount of reverb applied, and this is on purpose, though perhaps there is too much. Please comment, because I would really like to improve it.

    Some people I would especially like advice from are: Guy Bacos ("Mourning" is probably my 2nd favorite VSL piece), Williams Kersten ("Prospice" is still my favorite VSL piece), Dietz Tinhof ("Prospice" mixer), Beat Kaufmann, Christof Unterberger, Hetoreyn, and anyone and everyone else, please, I need your help. Thanks!

    http://www.badongo.com/file/8993794
  • C
    C
    I changed the mix slightly on the last few seconds, and I think it is better now.

    http://www.badongo.com/file/9005714
  • Beat KaufmannB
    Beat KaufmannB

    Hi Colin

    I listened to a piece of music with nice melodies and arrangements.

    I counted around 7s for the reverb (fade-out with the final chord at the end)

    All instruments with important melodies are easy to make out.

    Close to the listener are amongst other instruments:

    Trumpet, Piano, Cello, Trombones/Tuba? Oboe,...

    Farther away:

    A String Orchestra

    Somewhere between:

    Timpani


    There are no absolute mixing rules - there are expectations of listeners and technicians perhaps.

    And of course there are some technical matters which can support a mix or not.

    What ever the situation may be I don't want to say that's wrong in your mix and that's OK in it.

    I try to focus the eys on a point which could help to come to good results in general.

    It seems a likely supposition that I listened to a result of many many hours of attempts, adjustments,...

    Nevertheless, the result makes not completely happy but you don't know why...

    I believe that the way to mix such a project needs to have a very clear idea of the final result

    before you start with the mix.

    To get a clear idea could mean:

    Listening to an orchestra (mix) which you want to try to copy for your project.

    (reverb, positions of instruments, handling of soloists, ...)

    Drawing the virtual stage with the positions of the instruments

    Then... try to reach the model

    In your case it could be interesting to listen to a mix of the London Symphony Orchestra (Classic

    Rock Editions) for example.

    Once you will have a "mixing aim" and the position for each instrument on your virtual stage.

    You know how your reverb and room should sound.

    You know how you want to handle solos of all the instruments

    .... 

    So if the time has come to mix the trombones you know that they sould be behind the strings - even if they

    have a solo.

    Or you know:

    The trombones should play their solo in front of the orchestra even if this is not their usual position.

    Or you know:

    My mix has nothing to do with a real stage. I will give every instrument the same priority...

    Or you know:

    My orchestra plays in a cathedral - The reverb is part of a melting effect for the music...   

    A good lesson could be:

    - Save your project (Verion 1)

    - select a mix which you want to copy (a piece of the London Symphony Orchestra?)

    - Make a complete new mix of your piece (Version2) with the "new" reverb,

       the new poitions of the instruments etc - "copied" from the mix which you have

      selected before.

    Also important: Set a limit for this new mix > (for example: 4 hours maximum) 

    Compare then the two results.

    I prepared a "virtual-stage-paper" once for drawing in the instruments

    http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/extras/index.php#04391999f613b9323 

    All the best

    Beat Kaufmann 

    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/
  • C
    C
    Thanks very much for the advice, Beat. I will post again when I have a revised version for you to consider.
  • H
    H
    I think Beat is right when he says there are no rules and that anything we offer here should be viewed for exactly what they are .. opinions. First thoughts is that the piano sounds great. As the first Violin melody come in though it doesn't have the same level of reality as the piano .. however this is easily changed .. I think all you need to do is use a sustain violin patch (And change the release rate so that it's higher ... so that the end of the note lingers a little bit more), and this should help make the violins notes connect smoothly. . I think the Violin is also a little too much to the forward, everything else is sitting nicely in the position but the violins feel too close. The Solo violin I think is fine where it is. At around 3 mins in the violins seem to sit in the right place .. but the end very abruptly .. I really would change the release for this .. if your using VI .. make the release about 65 .. (Instead of 50 by defualt) and you should get a nice end to the note then). . Trumpets at 4:15 are quite dry net to the rest and again this gives them a 'not so real' sound. I would just sit them back in the mix .. depth wise ... and bring up the volume to allow the level to stay the same. The Trombone also shares this problem I think. I have the same problem with Brass .. always end up throwing on a tonne of reverb to get them right (Mind you you don't want too much :P). . As Beat says the reverb time is really long. I think one of the best rules for FX and such is that .. as soon as you can tell it's there .. it's problem too much :P. In this case I would say bring down the reverb time (2 or 3 seconds is usually a good room time), but of course you don't want to loose the room sound so I would say to try to balance it by increasing the wet ratio if you start to loose the essence. I think in most cases you can probably just increase the release time on all your instruments (I make it a point to set most of my VI's to 60+ release time so that I get a nice note ending without having to add more reverb), and that may sort out some of the note endings. . Nice piece all in all. And please treat my comments as just personal opinions. Everyone has their own vision as to what is good sounding. Again Beat says it best .. Just try to emulate the position and sound of a recording of an orchestra (Your favourite film score .. or other such music), You can't always achieve 100% of that sound .. but it may help you to learn where is best to position things on your virtual stage. Keep us posted on your progress.