What does how one lives and how one pays their bills have anything to do with this thread?? And whether VSL are in it for the money or the glory, either or both is fine by me. However, if you chose to buy a specific car from three contenders you had in mind, and one of the clinchers was the fact that included in the €50000 price-tag were free services for the life of the car or the company, and one year later they said they actually decided to start charging for them, I bet you would not even look at your wallet to see how much money you had in there; you would consider this a breach of contract and with or without your lawyer you would shove your copy of their contract in their avaricious faces and demand the free service of your car. You wouldn't even ask them whether they are having financial difficulties or more children or whatever, and certainly would not whine at them about how you couldn't possibly afford that arbitrary new policy due to your circumstances, family, blah-blah-blah... Come on people! We do not need to explain ourselves, we have done nothing wrong, and we are not asking for discounts! We are asking what we are due; and if there is anyone that has to explain himself, that is not us.
Best wishes,
Errikos
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No, Paul. I haven't complained to my health insurance company. But then, they didn't tell me my premiums wouldn't go up - then raise them anyway...in which case I would have raised hell. (But we did switch to another provider who offered premiums we could better afford.) My point (poorly made apparently) was about keeping your word. Nothing else. I didn't ask for, nor do I want, your sympathy.
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@PaulR said:
None of you will get any sympathy from me - I happen to disagree with most people and if that rocks your boats - then tough sh!t.Noone asked for your sympathy - but noone asked for your opinion either. You seem to be a very irritable, immature little whiner, who just can't help picking fights for the sake of it, doesn't think things through, and can't see different angles to a problem. Most of us are here to ask VSL some questions - since you're not them nobody actually has any interest in your views.
Bottom line is their actions are quite simply wrong, and we'd like to know why. No amount of jumping up and down and saying that other people do it is going to make their actions right.
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@Fred Story said:
No, Paul. I haven't complained to my health insurance company. But then, they didn't tell me my premiums wouldn't go up - then raise them anyway...in which case I would have raised hell. (But we did switch to another provider who offered premiums we could better afford.) My point (poorly made apparently) was about keeping your word. Nothing else. I didn't ask for, nor do I want, your sympathy.
This thread - Fred - is not really about insurance or assurance. This thread is about people wanting a thing right now and not having enough money concurrent with imminent purchase. It's about 'wants' and not 'needs' - we talked on this years ago if I remember correctly.
That I can understand a lot more than the other lame excuses being bandied around. Currently in this bollocks of an excuse for a country, there are crocodile tears for low paid workers losing their 10% tax rate band.
Actually, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the tax band - it's an excuse for something entirely different which I won't bore you with. It's used as an EXCUSE.
You've got to understand that while I am on your side Fred in most things - no one cares about other people's financial beefs whatever the apparent reasons. The company always has to come first in my book - or there's no company.
The customer is always right has always been an ad man's load of bollocks since time began.
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@PaulR said:
None of you will get any sympathy from me - I happen to disagree with most people and if that rocks your boats - then tough sh!t.Noone asked for your sympathy - but noone asked for your opinion either. You seem to be a very irritable, immature little whiner, who just can't help picking fights for the sake of it, doesn't think things through, and can't see different angles to a problem. Most of us are here to ask VSL some questions - since you're not them nobody actually has any interest in your views.
Bottom line is their actions are quite simply wrong, and we'd like to know why. No amount of jumping up and down and saying that other people do it is going to make their actions right.
Pingu, when you post on a public forum, you make the discussion public. You have no right only to solicit opinions that agree with your own. When it's your own forum, then you can decide who posts what, and whether or not it should be deleted. Alternatively, you could take up your beef directly with VSL, rather than complaining on multiple forums about the same issue.
DG
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@Pingu said:
Bottom line is their actions are quite simply wrong, and we'd like to know why. No amount of jumping up and down and saying that other people do it is going to make their actions right.
IN_YOUR_OPINION.
Why the fuck should they tell you anything? Huh? Are they a listed company? I don't think so. Are you a shareholder? Well I don't believe you can be.
So where the fuck do get off making those sort of demands? And who the fuck is we?
If I decide to defend VSL because they understandably cannot - then that's my fucking decision - and if you don't like it - you can go and fuck yourself! And if you want me to repeat that face to face - be my guest!!!
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@PaulR said:
I'm sorry, but call me old-fashioned - I don't understand how some of the people on this thread know how to walk and breath at the same time - I mean - HOW do some of you ACTUALLY live? Huh? How do you manage to pay your bills. Beats me. . . . .Have you complained to the health insurance company about their rising prices? Have you gone onto their forum website and told them it's left a bad taste in your mouth? If not - why not?
None of you will get any sympathy from me - I happen to disagree with most people and if that rocks your boats - then tough sh!t.Paul:
It appears that, from your point of view, making promises and then breaking them without explanation is a good business model. I'd guess that most in the bvusiness world would strongly disagree. There was no fine print in VSL's advertising of the VIP program stating that it could be withdrawn at any time, rather what was emphasized that you were making a "lifetime investment" because purchase included the VIP program.
In every form of relationship, whether business or personal, making and then breaking promises without an adequate explanation
elicits distrust and anger - - and lawsuits. Moreover, one might construe VSL's original advertising to have the force of an implied contract. I might also say that your implication that those who hold views contrary to yours on this subject are out of touch with the way things are done in the real world is, among other things, inapt. Indeed, in the real world, were a similar situation to occur between two large corporations - - where one perceived the other as breaching an implied contract - - there might already be armies of attorneys beginning litigation over the issue.
Your comparison of the current situation with VSL and rising health insurance costs is an apples to oranges comparison. The general question of the cost of health insurance can only be addressed - - and it will be - - politically since it affects every member of society in countless ways. However, even in this instance, there is a question of contractual obligation between the insurer and insured. In a recent case, for example, an insurance company, Healthnet, cut off payments for the chemotherapy of a woman being treated for cancer. Contrary to the insurance company's expectations, the woman survived - - because her doctors refused to stop the treatments. She won a nine million dollar settlement from the insurance company.
I have the greatest respect for the folks at VSL, their products and their commitment to excellence - - but that does not mean that I (or anyone else) should stay silent when I (or they) think VSL is doing something likely to be self-defeating in the long run. Again, VSL's policy change does not affect me personally, so I really have no need of your sympathy.
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@DG said:
Pingu, when you post on a public forum, you make the discussion public. You have no right only to solicit opinions that agree with your own.Absolutely, which is why I'm entitled to respond to you in the same abbrasive manner that you employ in all of your posts. Dismissing your opinion seems to have rattled you rather quickly.
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I couldn't agree more, Paul. The way we make our buying decisions is of no consequence in this discussion. I only used it as an example. The point was, we rely on honest information from the people we spend our money with. If we don't get it - we'll buy from someone else. Plus, our relationship with VSL is different than the one we have with our health insurance company. I have NO affection for our health insurance company, while I have great affection for VSL. I wouldn't ask anyone to change their opinion...I'm just expressing mine. I understand all too well the concept of shifting economic realities and the need for a company to adapt to them. What about the idea of simply keeping your word? Is that a load of bollocks, too?
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Now things are getting out of hand. Why let this PaulR guy drag this thread anymore of topic? He is not contributing at all, neither way, to what we are trying to say. I, for one (naively enough) is trying to reach the VSL company, although the attempt problably won't do much good.
There have been quite a few responses to this thread, but I can't see to many asking for PaulR opinion in any of the relevant questions, but he has nevertheless been quite eager to state his mind. Which ofcourse is fine as this is an open forum. But when you, PaulR, start handing out insults it has gotten to a level which does not belong here at all.
Disappointingly enough (or should I say, "as expectet") it seems like VSL will block out the opinions of their customers, and just let this whole thing blow over.
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Stephen - this business about promises pales into insignificance when you look at things as a whole. OK - I could concede it's a bit naughty - oh dear - can you ever forgive my type of thing. OK Steve - you win. Let's move on from that. It's business. It's Chinatown.
The company would probably like to stay in business and grow over time - yes?
We like VSL and their products - yes?
We have enjoyed over time high levels of service from them - yes?
We want them to have a future - yes?
We would all like to be rich - but some of us will have to wait - yes?
We are basically musicians and are of a forgiving nature -yes?
We look forward to new VSL products over time -yes?
We will all pay heavily for the crap that the world's banking organizations have just made - yes?
But we will all probably still use banks - yes?
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@DG said:
Pingu, when you post on a public forum, you make the discussion public. You have no right only to solicit opinions that agree with your own.Absolutely, which is why I'm entitled to respond to you in the same abbrasive manner that you employ in all of your posts. Dismissing your opinion seems to have rattled you rather quickly.
Have you read all my posts? I highly doubt it. [:O]
You think you "rattled me"? I highly doubt it. [:D]
DG
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@tommalm said:
But when you, PaulR, start handing out insults it has gotten to a level which does not belong here at all.
Insults? What insults? You mean like coming onto a public forum owned by VSL and THEN calling them bare faced liars - on their own forum. You mean insults like that?
Your contribution so far has been severely negative. You have beefed on and on and on about not having any money. I mean - one post would have sufficed on that - but now... I DEMAND to see your bank account details! You want details from VSL - OK - I DEMAND to see your personal financial situation in precis form right now!
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@DG said:
Pingu, when you post on a public forum, you make the discussion public. You have no right only to solicit opinions that agree with your own.Absolutely, which is why I'm entitled to respond to you in the same abbrasive manner that you employ in all of your posts. Dismissing your opinion seems to have rattled you rather quickly.
Have you read all my posts? I highly doubt it.
You think you "rattled me"? I highly doubt it.
DG
Sorry DG, completely used the wrong quote - I meant to grab a part of PaulR's post, and got distracted, then wrote a response to what was in my window, without spotting your name at the top.
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@PaulR said:
[quote=Pingu]Bottom line is their actions are quite simply wrong, and we'd like to know why. No amount of jumping up and down and saying that other people do it is going to make their actions right.Don't be so stupid. Right and wrong is not a matter of opinion. You are confusing them with legal and illegal; I have no doubt at all that there is no legal recourse against VSL's actions, particularly in the international market they operate in. But their actions are still wrong. Unless you believe dishonesty was declared to be ok at some point.
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@PaulR said:
[quote=Pingu]Bottom line is their actions are quite simply wrong, and we'd like to know why. No amount of jumping up and down and saying that other people do it is going to make their actions right.Don't be so stupid. Right and wrong is not a matter of opinion. You are confusing them with legal and illegal; I have no doubt at all that there is no legal recourse against VSL's actions, particularly in the international market they operate in. But their actions are still wrong. Unless you believe dishonesty was declared to be ok at some point.
OHHHH - I seeeeeee! You're right!!!! Oh I get it now. Pingu is RIGHT!! Pingu is always RIGHT!!!
Dishonesty? I assume you have a bank account do you? Do you go to your bank and tell them they are a bunch of assholes and totally dishonest?
You are on an 'open' forum and other open forums as Daryl has valiantly attempted to point out to you. Some here could be forgiven in thinking you were some kind of stalking horse from another company the way you're carrying on.
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@PaulR said:
Stephen - this business about promises pales into insignificance when you look at things as a whole. OK - I could concede it's a bit naughty - oh dear - can you ever forgive my type of thing. OK Steve - you win. Let's move on from that. It's business. It's Chinatown.
The company would probably like to stay in business and grow over time - yes?
We like VSL and their products - yes?
We have enjoyed over time high levels of service from them - yes?
We want them to have a future - yes?While I couldn't agree more with what you say about VSL, its products, services and its customers' hopes for its future, I have to disagree with the idea that, in any contractual agreement - - written or implied, either party is free to change the terms of the contract whenever it suits them. (Try that with your credit card company!)
A company can be great, make great products, offer great service, have idealistic intentions at its core and still make flawed, self-defeating decisions. It isn't helpful to the survival of a company if those who perceive that it has made a poor decision, stay silent. If you were to perceive a friend engaged in what you thought to be predictably self-defeating behavior, would you not risk his or her anger, by pointing out what you perceive?
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@stevesong said:
A company can be great, make great products, offer great service, have idealistic intentions at its core and still make flawed, self-defeating decisions. I
Absolutely - but you just have to accept that and move on. I can't think of one single company in the history of the universe that isn't like that. Most have been a lot worse actually. You just put up with that and move on. It's no good being holier than thou and all idealistic with the likes of me btw.
I don't go out of my way to make friends - I'm not interested in any of that. I'm way too brutal and try to be honest. Too bad if people can't deal with that - that's not my problem. They may all be better musicians than I'll ever be - but most of them don't know sh!t about money, that's for sure.