Need help with string legato patches!

[Felix Bartelt]

Sad, but true: After such a long time using VSL, I still don´t have the orchestral know how about when to use legato strings and when to use the sus-patches. Since there are a lot of people here knowing lots more than me, maybe someone can explain the use to me??? . Here is one example of a VC-8 line: -http://www.hohes-b.de/Celli3.mp3 .I don´t know, how to make it sound smooth and which patch I should be using. Since I exspect the answer: "Depends on, where you want to use it...", here is the same line within the song: .http://www.hohes-b.de/Celli+Orchestra.mp3 . I´d be really greatfull for some advice, what to do or to use in this special case. Thanks a lot!

[Angelo Clematide]

The VC-8_MV_PERF-LEG_P violoncelli sound like that in that register and the reverberation is also fine.

My first thougth was that the celli phrase is instrumentation wise not verklärt (transfigured) enough. The celli alone are offensichtlich zu simple in Farbe. Ich würde die Celli eine Oktave tiefer setzen und die original Tonhöhe welche die Celli jetzt haben in die Bratschen verlegen, und eine Oktave darüber noch eine Flöte, alles unisono in Oktaven und wie gehabt pp.  Eine andere Kombination mit Altflöte könnte das ganze noch mehr verklären, z.B. später wenn dieses Cellimotif wiederkehrt.

[Felix Bartelt]

Thanks for the tipps! I´ll try that tomorrow. My main problem is about unterstanding, how to make strings sound smoother (softer) in their transition. . Hard to describe, what I want, but I sort of think of the transition not beeing heard so much. Is that a job for the legatos or the normal sus?

[synthetic]

For the true legato patches, you have to hold the first note while you play the second note, then hold #2 as you move to #3, etc. You play it as if you're arpeggiating and sustaining a chord, but the result will sound like individual notes. I would break up every third note in your example.  

[Angelo Clematide]

@Felix Bartelt said:

My main problem is about unterstanding, how to make strings sound smoother (softer) in their transition. .

Hard to describe, what I want, but I sort of think of the transition not beeing heard so much. Is that a job for the legatos or the normal sus?

I guess by "transition not beeing heard so much" you mean the each time heard attack swell the following note produces, even thus there shouldn't be any swell as with real celli when they tap a new note/position on the board under the same bow stroke. Quasi the same as in Orchester-Stricharten mit liegendem Bogen called Bindungen, Angehängte Stricharten, Louré (played under one bow direction) or simply a group of notes played under one Bindebogen without changing bow direction respectively without Bogenrichtungszeichen.

I hope you understand the German teminology, the only other terninologies I know is Italian and French.

.

[Felix Bartelt]

@Angelo Clematide said:

I guess by "transition not beeing heard so much" you mean the each time heard attack swell the following note produces, even thus there shouldn't be any swell as with real celli when they tap a new note/position on the board under the same bow stroke.

. That´s, what I mean. If I look at my celli file in the sample editor, the amplitude goes down, when the next note starts. But I want it to stay nearly at the same level. I remember, that there were no-attack-patches in my former VSL package. Would that be the right patch? Or how do I achieve this "Louré"-Technique?

[PaulR]

Is that cello line a little high Felix? Or is it just me - I don't know. It sounds a little bit gappy - almost a leg marc - but fairly mp. Trying to compare how samples behave with a real set of cello players could be futile Felix. You have to work out what's best through experimentation.
Although I played those notes just now on my keyboard with a cello leg patch and it sounded a bit different.

[Felix Bartelt]

Sorry! I didn´t mention, that this is a non legato patch. It is the VC-8_sus_vib. The point of my question is not the timbre, even though it seems to be too high, since Angelo stated the same. The mp3 is just meant to be an example for my lack of good and smooth transitions. Would a legato patch be better?

[Felix Bartelt]

Also forgot to say, that the attack times are changed. So the right question would be, where you would set the attack and release values and which Celli-patch you would use, to make the line sound smoother.

[Angelo Clematide]

@Felix Bartelt said:

Or how do I achieve this "Louré" - Technique?

 

Louré is a portato bowing technique more likely indicated when playing in p (piano), for example slurred tenuto or combining legato with a push, resp. accenting one note by accelerating the bow speed and/or increasing bow pressure. It doesn't make sense to think about on-string techniques (Streicharten mit liegendem Bogen) in the virtual reality when there are no samples of this kind. Not all patches close the re-swelling at the point the next note is tap under one bowing direction or even out the re-swelling at bow direction change. The legato patches connect seamless.

[PaulR]

Bow pressure is fine in real time.

But in the real world of samples I would simply guess that a cello legato patch would be best. If you think of the written line in terms of where a slur may begin and end - then this would indicate legato. A lot of the guys use a dim 2 second patch for instance (or even 0.5 sec/0.3 sec depending on the tempo) to end a phrase with. This gives the illusion of less bow pressure. You could use cresc patches if that was more appropriate. Experiment.
I would try a similar viola line in your example just to see if it works - maybe doubled with the cello an octave lower. Who knows.

[synthetic]

You're playing it like this?

[Felix Bartelt]

The example wasn´t a legato patch, but I guess, I want it to sound like in the picture. I´ll try that dynamic patches. Thanks for the tipps.