ppolarbear - no, I do not mean to contradict you. It is very pleasant chatting with such a knowledgeable person.
BTW only god knowing what comes out of a horn definitely applies to my playing...
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@PolarBear said:
Did I miss a request in that list?
PolarBear
All very well and necessary; but isn't anybody else interested in a dedicated bank of voices, specifically detailed (as the orchestral and extra-orchestral instruments are) in variety and articulation? Doesn't anyone else feel the absence of versatile vocal soloists to be crippling, or at least very limiting to what can be achieved in symphonic electronics? Do the composers in this forum miss some colourful, but relatively tangential and marginal, ethnic instruments more than a DVD with the complete range of vocal soloists with words and choirs with words, as fully articulated and varied as possible? Especially the soloists who are not offered by anyone as far as I know... If I am the only one who sees this as a priority before additional instruments are considered (I am not referring to enriching and perfecting what is already there - subdividing strings, etc., that I agree comes first), forgive the intrusion.
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A Choir is already in the pipeline for release later this year. Other than this, we know nothing about VSL choral plans.
However, whilst I agree that vocals will be very useful, there are missing articulations for existing instruments that are far more important IMO. Let's be able to program properly for existing instruments before we look for others.
DG
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Many people have already talked about having a choir done, so that is nothing new. It would of course be very desirable. Mainly because legato is crucial and VSL's legato applied to voices would at last allow a realistic sound instead of the weird disconnected single note samples that are universal. I am much less concerned about some spoken word utility than simply being able to use an actual slurred legato wordless choir that is as good as the horns, Appassionata, etc
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Like I said in my message, priority one is to enrich and perfect what is there already, so I take it we are in agreement. I really hope that VSL masters are working on a utility for words, unless they have decided that their main clients are movie, TV and game composers. I only took the time to re-post my thoughts on voices because I see that whole pages have been written about the rarest of instruments while leaving out, what at least I consider it to be, an infinitely more essential "family of instruments". And William - "Many people have already talked about having a choir done, so that is nothing new", I am aware of that, I have the East West myself, I was proposing that specialists put quality time into developing an as-comprehensive-as-possible DVD of solo vocalists; to my knowledge this kind of project/discussion hasn't exactly flooded the relevant fora. I respect your indifference to the idea but not everybody has access to great tenors hitting Ds for their pieces...@DG said:
Let's be able to program properly for existing instruments before we look for others.
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I am not INDIFFERENT to the the idea of solo vocalists. Whoever said that? Not me.
It is not practical to represent a vocal soloist in samples, except crudely, because of the infinite variation of every single musical element on an instant-by-instant basis by even a mediocre singer. And since everyone is now used to recordings of great singers, it becomes even harder. If you want a soloist, you are wasting time to use samples. Especially since a good (live) one can be recorded very practically. However, to get a choir is another matter. There it becomes immensely difficult in practical or monetary terms. Also, when the voice is confined to an ensemble in a choir it becomes possible to represent what is done by the singers with samples. And there is no choir currently available that uses actual legato samples. All of them are single note samples with some processing (as in East West) to fake legato. So to create a full legato sample choir would make a lot of sense. And it does not yet exist. But to think that with sample solo vocalists someone can program Nessum Dorma is a joke.
BTW if you would like to hear very good solo vocalists sampled try out the "Diva" by Bela D Media. It is very good, though it reveals the simple fact that the only thing that can be done with a soloist is a glorified single note sample set, and then large chunks of performance with legato and syllables etc. that are completely frozen in place and can only be used "as is.".
Though as i have said before to get more samples is always a good thing...
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My most wanted is still French Horns with a range equal to what I hear on actual recordings all the time...film scores, even pop scores. Sometimes a third higher than the limits of the current library. TH
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I woulld love to have some really cool epic string, the one we can hear on actual epic movies: Crazy tremolos with lots of movements on the bow so that every player plays fff and a little bit detuned Hammer: fff staccatos on the low range, hitchcock style Birds: short upper range glissandi with random notes. Noises on the bridge. Really agressive drum Lovely soprano with lot of vibrato and: a complete choir singing closed mouth "mmm" An old not clean fender rhodes Guitar: A very short staccato, the existing is very nice but too long Flutes: The recorder family, there is only 4 flutes (piccolo, flute, alto flute and bass flute), we really need more… somme looped sustained solo violin !!!! I could'nt find any while I was in a rush to render a movie project, too bad '&
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That scene has been ripped off so many times I can't imagine anyone wanting to use that effect. TH
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Tom,
I haven't heard it on a score - this week.[:P]
You just know this over use of a motif (maybe Jaws two note motif as well) is 'Director driven'. I know if I was asked to use this on a score - my first thought would be 'how am I going to talk this really dumb idea out of the Director (maybe Producer with the dough).
---Sorry, I digress.......
In all seriousness I think some String FX would be great (beyond the very few in the AP series). String FX I still use is Garritan's GOS. Be nice to have some new ones. Any of the creepy FX from JW or JNH scores, etc. Can't imagine this taking a lot of studio time (no multisamples needed - just tons of variations. Leave the mics on and just let em go crazy[;)].
Rob
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Well, that certainly a classic, but this "articulation" can be very usefull, the aim is not to redo Herrmann's score at all… Furthermore, We could have more articulation up, down, cluster <>, fall during 3 octavas slow, fast, with tremolos. So many cool effects to use. So, i would understand if you don't want it and prefer your french horn range…but there is certainly many composers here using the VSL that would love to have it in their hands
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In all seriousness I think some String FX would be great (beyond the very few in the AP series). String FX I still use is Garritan's GOS. Be nice to have some new ones. Any of the creepy FX from JW or JNH scores, etc.
As I've mentioned many times, I'm all for an "FX" dimension to the VSL. However, I would hope that they would lean away from this sort of "quotation" idea, that I seem to be getting from what you're saying... I may be misinterpreting, but it would be important, I think, to try to sample the techniques themselves, as "objectively" as possible.... er, I don't think I'm making much sense... It's kind of like the difference between the performance "runs", which I never use, and the different types of performance legatos (which I always use). The performance legatos can be used to make an infinite variety of runs, but they aren't cast in stone, so to speak. I would be a bit disappointed if the VSL sampled a bunch of "creepy FX" in a totally integrated way, so that they always came off as weird sorts of references to, or quotations of, other scores. Am I making any sense yet?... I think that, as long as such extended techniques are considered as just that - techniques, just like legato, staccato, and so on - then their inclusion into the VSL would be absolutely brilliant.
J.
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I'm speaking specifically of the quick glisses used in "Psycho" .....that is total cliche, not the rest of the ideas. I would love a STRING FX section too... TH
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If you think that way, everything is a cliché…everything is made of cliche. Listen to every horror movie music, or gothic or whatever, even Marco Beltrami: it's not cliche, it's classic, like pizz or snap pizzicato, or forte staccato. It's only a new articulation, I don't see where the problem is. And BTW that my wish list among many others.