Vienna Symphonic Library Forum
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  • W
    W

    I am not INDIFFERENT to the the idea of solo vocalists. Whoever said that?  Not me. 

    It is not practical to represent a vocal soloist in samples, except crudely, because of the infinite variation of every single musical element on an instant-by-instant basis by even a mediocre singer.  And since everyone is now used to recordings of great singers, it becomes even harder.  If you want a soloist, you are wasting time to use samples.  Especially since a good (live) one can be recorded very practically. However, to get a choir is another matter.  There it becomes immensely difficult in practical or monetary terms.  Also, when the voice is confined to an ensemble in a choir it becomes possible to represent what is done by the singers with samples. And there is no choir currently available that uses actual legato samples.  All of them are single note samples with some processing (as in East West) to fake legato. So to create a full legato sample choir would make a lot of sense. And it does not yet exist.  But to think that with sample solo vocalists someone can program Nessum Dorma is a joke.

    BTW if you would like to hear very good solo vocalists sampled try out the "Diva" by Bela D Media.  It is very good, though it reveals the simple fact that the only thing that can be done with a soloist is a glorified single note sample set, and then large chunks of performance with legato and syllables etc. that are completely frozen in place and can only be used "as is.".

    Though as i have said before to get more samples is always a good thing...

  • T
    T
    My most wanted is still French Horns with a range equal to what I hear on actual recordings all the time...film scores, even pop scores. Sometimes a third higher than the limits of the current library. TH
  • L
    L
    I woulld love to have some really cool epic string, the one we can hear on actual epic movies: Crazy tremolos with lots of movements on the bow so that every player plays fff and a little bit detuned Hammer: fff staccatos on the low range, hitchcock style Birds: short upper range glissandi with random notes. Noises on the bridge. Really agressive drum Lovely soprano with lot of vibrato and: a complete choir singing closed mouth "mmm" An old not clean fender rhodes Guitar: A very short staccato, the existing is very nice but too long Flutes: The recorder family, there is only 4 flutes (piccolo, flute, alto flute and bass flute), we really need more… somme looped sustained solo violin !!!! I could'nt find any while I was in a rush to render a movie project, too bad '&
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    @Laurent said:

    hitchcock style Birds:



    That could be a tricky one Laurent. Do you mean Psycho?
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    yes
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    @Laurent said:

    yes
    :))))


    Do you mean Herrmann Laurent?
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    Yes, Bernard Hermann Psycho-The Knife http://filmsound.org/articles/hitchcock/makingpsycho.htm
  • T
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    That scene has been ripped off so many times I can't imagine anyone wanting to use that effect. TH
  • R
    R

    Tom,

    I haven't heard it on a score - this week.[:P]

    You just know this over use of a motif (maybe Jaws two note motif as well) is 'Director driven'.   I know if I was asked to use this on a score - my first thought would be 'how am I going to talk this really dumb idea out of the Director (maybe Producer with the dough).

    ---Sorry, I digress.......

    In all seriousness I think some String FX would be great (beyond the very few in the AP series).   String FX I still use is Garritan's GOS.   Be nice to have some new ones.  Any of the creepy FX from JW or JNH scores, etc.   Can't imagine this taking a lot of studio time (no multisamples needed - just tons of variations.   Leave the mics on and just let em go crazy[;)].  

    Rob 
  • L
    L
    Well, that certainly a classic, but this "articulation" can be very usefull, the aim is not to redo Herrmann's score at all… Furthermore, We could have more articulation up, down, cluster <>, fall during 3 octavas slow, fast, with tremolos. So many cool effects to use. So, i would understand if you don't want it and prefer your french horn range…but there is certainly many composers here using the VSL that would love to have it in their hands
  • J
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    @Rob Elliott said:

    In all seriousness I think some String FX would be great (beyond the very few in the AP series).   String FX I still use is Garritan's GOS.   Be nice to have some new ones.  Any of the creepy FX from JW or JNH scores, etc. 


    As I've mentioned many times, I'm all for an "FX" dimension to the VSL. However, I would hope that they would lean away from this sort of "quotation" idea, that I seem to be getting from what you're saying... I may be misinterpreting, but it would be important, I think, to try to sample the techniques themselves, as "objectively" as possible.... er, I don't think I'm making much sense... It's kind of like the difference between the performance "runs", which I never use, and the different types of performance legatos (which I always use). The performance legatos can be used to make an infinite variety of runs, but they aren't cast in stone, so to speak. I would be a bit disappointed if the VSL sampled a bunch of "creepy FX" in a totally integrated way, so that they always came off as weird sorts of references to, or quotations of, other scores. Am I making any sense yet?... I think that, as long as such extended techniques are considered as just that - techniques, just like legato, staccato, and so on - then their inclusion into the VSL would be absolutely brilliant.

    J.
  • T
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    I'm speaking specifically of the quick glisses used in "Psycho" .....that is total cliche, not the rest of the ideas. I would love a STRING FX section too... TH
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    If you think that way, everything is a cliché…everything is made of cliche. Listen to every horror movie music, or gothic or whatever, even Marco Beltrami: it's not cliche, it's classic, like pizz or snap pizzicato, or forte staccato. It's only a new articulation, I don't see where the problem is. And BTW that my wish list among many others.
  • R
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     J - you are right - this would be so useful but can this be done 'seemlessly?   If so - I'd be first in line.  I too hate ' pre-recorded performances' - when you hear them on video games, TV, etc. - just makes me wince.   But I wish I could tell you I have never used them[:$]

    Having something we can program would be idea.

    Rob 
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    @Rob Elliott said:

    but can this be done 'seemlessly?


    Well... yes, it would be tricky, for sure. But these VSL folks are exceedingly clever! 😉
    I mean, we're all accustomed to performance legato, at this point, but that was quite a stroke of genius on, Herb's part.

    J.
  • T
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    Laurent, no this is beyond similar techniques used in films, this is a SIGNATURE moment in the history of film and no one can use that repeated ascending quick gliss without everyone knowing it's "Psycho," you cannot compare it to general things like low basses coming in as the knock comes at the door;) TH
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    Just recently, string effects samples were used in a mockup that had to be orchestrated and and notated etc for an orchestra. Working out the instrumentation and notating the sampled string effects was a nightmare. But that's what they wanted so........
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    Tom, in that case, the signature IS an ensemble of elements, you don't have to use it as repeated motif. it's "use it at your own attitude" , it's a very basic articulation. "low basses coming in as the knock comes at the door" is a good one to put on the list too '-)
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    @PaulR said:

    Just recently, string effects samples were used in a mockup that had to be orchestrated and and notated etc for an orchestra. Working out the instrumentation and notating the sampled string effects was a nightmare. But that's what they wanted so........


    Yes, Paul. This is part of what I'm talking about. If such "FX" are recorded in an insufficiently general way, then it becomes extremely difficult to kind of "work backward" to the notation of the performance. I almost always work in Sibelius, so I don't particularly want "FX" that cannot be scored "properly". By properly, I mean score in the way you would score them for live players... Obviously, there are things that can't really be recorded in such a manner (the 3 trombone clusters are good example), but if at all possible, I'd like things made very general, and flexible.

    As an example, it's imaginable that VSL could program a "performance cluster" patch, which looks at the notes played by the user, just checking for the top and bottom pitches of the cluster, then selects the appropriate sampled cluster for playback. That's a simple example, but you get the idea...

    J.
  • M
    M
    just my 2 cents. I too use Sibelius and I wish VSL would put together an extensive extended-techniques package along with a book that shows how every articulation performed should be notated. Lately I’ve been collecting books on individual instruments on extended performance techniques and I find that unless they come with a CD, which has recordings of the notated examples in the book you still have to rely on musician friends to insure that you get what you've written. Anyway, it would make for a great sample library as well as a educational package that I’m sure composers & students the world over would be more than willing to part with their money for. Besides, you can easily spend 300.00 plus on books alone, so imagine what a package like this would be worth.