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  • Altiverb with Vienna Ensemble

    How are people using Altiverb - now that we have Vienna Ensemble.

    I once read somewhere that when we use the stage positioning feature in Altiverb - we are disturbing the natural sample recorded from a fixed position during recording.

    So now that we have power panning in VE - Is it then better NOT to use the stage positioning feature in Altiverb and just use it for the different distance samples and use VE for power panning.

    OR - we use both to make it sound as we want it to. Thats wht I did before - I mean I would sometimes use he Cubase 4 panner plus Altiverb normal sage positioning.

    any thoughts?

    Best,

    Tanuj.


  • Hi Tanuj

    In theory, I believe the 'correct' approach would be to route individual VE tracks/instruments through VE busses, and apply Altiverb (in stereo->stereo format) at the bus point.  Obviously you would need to pan the individual tracks/instruments correctly, and leave the busses panned 'open'.  This way the instrument is panned to it's correct stage position prior to being treated with reverb.  Obviously, you should then NOT pan your instruments in Altiverb, and NOT pan the signal which leaves your bus.  Also, assuming you want the true sound of the hall (or other sampled space), you should set Altiverb up so that you hear only the wet signal.

    That said, I have found this approach often results in signals which are not panned extremely enough.  For example, even if I pan my 1st Violins fairly hard to the left, and reduce the width of field to be fairly narrow, the signal which comes out of Altiverb after reverb is applied, masks a lot of the panning information - ie. the violins don't sound clearly like they're sitting to the left of the stage, the reverberated signal almost makes them sound in the middle.  Perhaps this is a shortcoming of the Altiverb impulses, or perhaps this is the way the sampled spaces really behave, but it doesn't sound quite right to me.   I'm still working on a way around this, as panning the reverberated signal is technically 'wrong', if one cares about being accurate.

    Personally I don't like using the stage position setting in Altiverb to move instruments further forward or back - it just doesn't sound natural to my ear.  I tend to use different samples from the same space for different sections, in order to achieve the sense of depth - ie. use a position of say 8m for the 1st violins and celli, 12m for the 2nd violins and violas, 16m for the brass and percussion etc.  Not strictly accurate either, and certainly less flexible, but it sounds more natural to me.

    I'd be interested to hear the techniques of other Altiverb users too.

    Jules


  • last edited
    last edited

    Hello Altiverb-Users

    I'm often using Altiverb as well specialy to - get room depths (not reverb/tail). The concept of Altiverb is to send the signal trough its rooms (recorded IRs) with the possibility to feed the signal into this selected room by shifting the virtual loudspeakers around. This way you can simulate Panning and a sort of monoizing. On one hand that seems to be the solution and on the other hand altiverb hits back with the main disadavantage of this feature: Phase -Faults. So a loudspeaker position can produce a phantastic room feeling but even if you shift the speakers only for 1/10 mm you can get the oposit of "phantastic".

    So when I use Altiverb I always try to get an optimal correlation (by adjusting the speakers) for each instance which means one depth. The work of panning I solve outside Altiverb.

    Further I equalize extremly coloured IRs to a more neutral sound very often. It Could be that some Halls sound really cheesy, muddy, dark, ... how ever. But I like the length or the density of a certain Hall without the "cheese".

    BK_Altiverb-Equalized.mp3 (middle part equalized >... yes, it's an extremly wet signal I know).

    For solo instruments, drums etc. I use most time roomworks (built in reverb of Cubase). This PlugIn can use a lot of CPU > freeze.

    Best

    Beat


    - Tips & Tricks while using Samples of VSL.. see at: https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/vitutorials/ - Tutorial "Mixing an Orchestra": https://www.beat-kaufmann.com/mixing-an-orchestra/