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  • Some test results

    Finding that playback of a VE Standalone basic orchestral template - - 13 matrices loaded with a little less than 2.2GB loaded was marred by clicks and pops under OS 10.5.1,  I created a Logic file (in Logic 7) set up as a host for exactly the same configuration of matrices using individual instantiations of VI (version 1.1.3) rather than VE.

    In this setup, Logic is the playback object for Finale 2008 and is addressed via the IAC ports.)

    1 instance of Altiverb was used in both the VE Standalone and in the Logic setup. Although the file was created in Logic 7 (under OS10.4.11) and ran without incident in that configuration, for the purposes of this test I opened it with Logic 8 running under OS 10.5.1. 

    Much better playback - - no artifacts,  clicks or pops.

    Activity Monitor shows significantly less processor stress - - User maxed out at 65% whereas it had exceeded 100% when playing the same file with VE Standalone as the host - - Adding Ozone 3 as an effect on Logic Outputs 1-2 raised processor max (User) to 85% - - still no artifacts.

    The conclusion appears to be that, on dual 2.5GHz G5 running under OS 10.5.1, Logic 8 is a more efficient host than VE.  I will try this test again with Logic 7 running under OS 10.5.1.


  • Thanks for posting your results Steve.  It's good to know where we stand with VE vs. VI.

    What VE adds in flexibility, it seems to take away in CPU overhead and instability.  Using the standalone was my last hope of being able to get VE up and running for everyday work - the plugin version (in Logic) is way too flaky here.

    Out of interest, did you try the same tests without the additional plugins (Altiverb etc.)?  Just wondering if VE is just a 'bad' (or rather 'inefficient')host for non-VSL plugins perhaps, and if taking them out of the equation might put things on a more even footing.

    Thanks again.

    Jules  


  •  Jules:

    If I get a chance later today I will conduct further tests. However I did try using a simple non-convolution reverb (using far less processor power)  in the VE orchestral template with similar results. I never attempted to use Ozone 3 instantiated in VE. The fact remains that, when I use Logic as the host rather than VE loaded - - with exactly the same matrices as had been loaded into VE - - + Altiverb + Ozone 3, and I play the same dense score with Finale as the MIDI source I consistently get no artifacts (clicks and pops) during playback, but I get frequent artifacts when I use VE as the source (with only Altiverb instantiated). Logic shows consistently less processor usage even with multiple plugins than VE with only one plugin. 

    One observation:

    Memory management appears to be significantly superior in OS 10.5.1. As I've noted in other postings, the current OSX version of VE has a bug that causes it to launch whenever Finale 2008 is launched. To avoid a crash that sometimes happens if the license checking process occurs during an attempt to launch Finale, I open the VE standalone first. Then launch Finale which as I've said, launches the VE plugin. I then close the VE plugin (which Finale cannot see or use). If I'm running this under OS 10.4.11, it then takes 4-5 minutes before Finale opens (under OS 10.5.1 there is only a short delay). Then I load the orchestral template. When this is done from a cold start or after a restart, the template is shown to occupy 2.2 GB of RAM, but also shows that there are only 1.7 GB of free RAM. The missing free RAM (my G5 is equipped with 7GB) is listed as "inactive." When I do the same thing running under OS 10.5.1, Activity Monitor shows exactly the same orchestral template occupying 1.9 GB of RAM with 3.2 GB of free RAM. 

    Another issue is the fact that Finale is a processor hog - - using about 80% of one processor  (no version of Finale so far is multi-processor aware) during playback of a fairly dense score. The same file (transferred via a MIDI file) to Logic uses approximately 50% less processing power - - even though Logic is running the virtual instruments and managing various sound-processing plugins at the same time, whereas Finale is doing no sound processing, just creating a stream of MIDI playback data. In other words, if Finale were written to be processor efficient and if it were multi-processor aware, the processor overload problems I've described would be less likely. However technically impaired it may be, Finale remains my preferred medium for composing in notation - - perhaps because I've been using it since V.1.5 and am not inclined to spend a lot of time becoming similarly adept with another notation program.

    Unfortunately I do not see any reason (I hope I'm wrong!!!)  to anticipate that Finale will be re-written any time soon to be more processor  efficient or to gain the ability to use multiple processor cores. In other words, the most viable solution under these circumstances would likely be to move to an 8 processor Penryn machine (when they become available) so that Finale can get most of one processor all to itself while the other processors are engaged in other activities. Another solution would be to run Finale on a different machine - - leaving the sound producing machine to do its tasks without the burdens Finale imposes. 


  • Thanks Steve.

    It sounds like the issues are with VE itself, rather than the way it hosts plugins like Altiverb then.  I'm just hoping Paul and his team get an update out soon.  They've made it clear they're aware of the issues many Mac users are seeing some time ago, so I really hope all this gets sorted out quickly.

    Can I ask one other question - I've been too much of a coward to move up to Leopard, I'm still hding behind 10.4.10.  Can I ask how much of a deal it was for you - did a lot of your plugins stop working, does Logic still behave itself etc., or is it all plain sailing?  Clearly it's no silver bullet as far as VE issues are concerned, but perhaps it might ease a few other issues.

    Thanks again for your feedback.

    Jules


  •  Jules:

    I've written you a detailed answer to your questions about Leopard and sent it as a Private Message.

    Here I'll say that most things work pretty well. (e.g. Logic 7 and Logic 8, Altiverb, Ozone 3)

    What does not work:

    EWQLSO Kompakt player as a plugin - - it does work as a standalone.

    After you've saved and quit Finale 2008, it disappears as you would expect, but a few moments later an error message appears informing you that "Finale 2008 has unexpectedly quit." This does not seem to cause any harm. Supposedly it will be fixed in the next maintenance update.

    The backup program SuperDuper is not yet fully compatible with Leopard, but a compatible update is undergoing testing.  


  • Many thanks Stve.

    Appreciate your efforts with the tests and your detailed repsonse off-line.

    Regards

    Jules