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  4. These panning problems are getting on my nerves!!!

  • These panning problems are getting on my nerves!!!

    F
    F
    In my oppinion this is absolutely no small bug, allowing VSL, not to put it on their agenda, but somehow, even the support doesn´t care.

    This here sounds like two different sections are playing, but it´s one HO-4-sus-section, just playing a G3 and a D4:

    http://www.hohes-b.de/Panning_Prob.mp3

    I think for that amount of money we could exspect more or at least a hint, how to make this sound a little more like one section.

    Anyone else having a solution?
  • F
    F
    Am I really the only one, beeing bothered by this. Did no one of you guys find a solution how to get that to a acceptable level?

    The only solution I found is for the HO-4_perf-gliss, where U can cell xfade betwenn gliss and sus shortly before signal of gliss is moving right.
  • P
    P
    Narrowing the stereo field would help it for some extent. I'd listen to the final result in a composition and if it really stands out maybe draw some panning curve additionally to the narrowing I always do.

    All the best,
    PolarBear
  • E
    E
    Isn't that a bit ridiculous though? How could VSL let inconsistent stereo exist in their product?

    Edit: Hey, should reverb take care some of that problem combined with monoizing?
  • B
    B
    I've found that a lot too, but not within the same articualtion. E.g. solo cello _stac and _sus might be slightly apart from each other.
  • E
    E
    I mean, this is really surprising and confusing. It's as if the VSL team purposely changed the panning on samples and I know they wouldn't do that. I don't see how this kind of thing could come up on its own. It doesn't even make sense to say that microphone placement is to blame. I'm just blowing out a random theory here, but maybe the VSL team never checked microphone "level or volume" balance on their pre-amps or something?

    Nonetheless I don't see how it would be so hard for VSL to fix it. DRY samples should be in the middle of the stereo, am I right?
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
    As pointed our several times during the last few years, these "panning problems" are nothing than a natural occurance of any source in any room. Due to resonaces in a room (and within the instrument itself, too), certain frequencies appear to be louder than others, although they are at the same level at their source.

    Make a simple test: Listen to a slow sine-sweep on your favorite monitors. You will hear the tone wandering around, although neither you nor the speakers move.

    The same happens while a musician plays on a stage or in our studio: Both the instrument and the microphone are painstakingly positioned by our recoring team, but the laws of acoustics make the sound change its perceptibel volume.

    HTH,
    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • E
    E
    Well, there you have it. BLAME GOD!
  • B
    B
    last edited
    last edited

    @Dietz said:

    As pointed our several times during the last few years, these "panning problems" are nothing than a natural occurance of any source in any room. Due to resonaces in a room (and within the instrument itself, too), certain frequencies appear to be louder than others, although they are at the same level at their source.

    Make a simple test: Listen to a slow sine-sweep on your favorite monitors. You will hear the tone wandering around, although neither you nor the speakers move.

    The same happens while a musician plays on a stage or in our studio: Both the instrument and the microphone are painstakingly positioned by our recoring team, but the laws of acoustics make the sound change its perceptibel volume.

    HTH,


    The answer I was looking for. Thanks Dietz!
  • DietzD
    VSL Team
    DietzD
    last edited
    last edited

    @Elan Hickler said:

    [...]
    Edit: Hey, should reverb take care some of that problem combined with monoizing?

    Our samples are recorded in a "ideal stereo"-position. The idea is to give our users the possibilty to write music not only for large orchestras, but also intimate dolo-pieces.

    In Real Life, you will have this perspective only in the first row of a concert hall (or in your living room [;)] ...). Thus, from a mere technical POV, it is mandatory to reduce the stereo width of our Instruments to get a proper relation between distance to the instrument an its respective size. Think of it as a isosceles triangle, where the base gets smaller and smaller (in relation) when the two sides get longer.

    This is mainly true for solo instruments, of course, but also for ensembles, to a certain extent.

    HTH,
    /Dietz - Vienna Symphonic Library
  • J
    J
    One thing I've noticed when reducing the width of the VSL samples (particularly as they approach mono) is that you certainly loose presence ans also, to my ears, a little of the upper register. This artifact isn't exclusive to VSL samples as most stereo sources when pushed towards mono loose presence and a little treble. In the short term I think there is not an easy solution, if you think of recreating a typical symphonic orchestral layout that's an awful lot of stereo images being squuezed and manipulated away from their original recorded position. Perhaps a future sampled library might provide a mono close mic direct source with a stereo (in classic position) as well as the basic stereo that can be positioned and processed a will. But then again are we better served by new instruments and articulationst than the same stuff just re-recorded for position! Julian
  • B
    B

    Hi, the whole 'orchestral placement' deal is really taking up far too much of my time as well at the moment.

    I'm using great samples and good plug-ins (Waves S1, Altiverb and PSP Neon) but I am struggling to really get the depth and positioning accurate.

    I was reading a mixing book yesterday which mentioned compressing individual instruments in a busy mix to help place them more effectively. Apparently the more consistent volume allows the ear to focus on a specific source more easily.

    Now I know that compression is considered to be a bit of a double-edged sword when it comes to orchestral production but perhaps it might help in this case.
  • M
    M
    Instead of monoising things as everyone says, just mute one channel of the stereo sample and you have a single microphone sample sounds much better ! You havee to have your DAW set up so you can have properly split L+R mixer channels not a single channel with panning or it will not work, either that or you can bounce your part as separate L+R channels and then just import a mono channel of just one or the other back into the piece. Miklos.
  • M
    M

    A related question: So if you do want to narrow the width and then pan (and you're using the samples in Hosts on slave computers), at what point do you guys perform the narrowing? Do you narrow it at the source (in the host/slave computer) or do you do it in your DAW? Or does it make a difference? I guess I have the same question about panning? At the source or at the DAW?


    Thanks for you help,

    Mahlon