I see. Thanks Martin. Too bad though. I do not see how someone can try the concept of the Vienna Cube without potentially wasting $450-650.

Let's say I buy the SE, test the concept with my system and decide to buy the cube (which is what I would like to do) -- 450 wasted. Altenatively, I buy one of the VIs from the Cube first to try things out and decide it works for me -- roughly $500 wasted (i.e., savings one gets buying the cube all at once versus one at a time is about $500).

Assuming I end up prchasing the Cube (my intent), the only option I can see is to buy an orchestral VI that is not part of the Cube but that would probably complement it should I go forward with the total purchase (e.g., Appassionata Strings) -- a $650 trial that might leave me with a marginally useful collection given the lack of the remainder of the orchestra.

Am I missing something? What other options are there? Seems like a hole in product positioning. I have the Kontakt 2 VSL content and know the samples are great. I just would like to concept test the VI approach before I sink $5000 for the library and whatever hardware is required, based on my setup (DP5.11, G5 Dual 2.7, 6.5 gisg of RAM). Any guidance would be appreciated.

This "no discount for SE" seems very strange to me, especially considering opus owners get a discount when upgrading to Cube, yet SE owners (which replaced Opus) do not. Perhaps its all due to the Discount Calculator? I know its go though many changes over the years.

Hi - I'd recommend you buy the Standard version of Solo Strings or Saxophones, both of which are unsurpassed in terms of sound quality, musicality, playability and performance options. If you don't get on with the VI concept (most people do, it requires only a minor change in approach) you will still have a superb collection which you can run alongside whatever you decide to buy instead of the Cube.

Guys, SE just came out. Give VSL some time on this. I'm sure that should their existing SE customers want to upgrade to the full Cube, they will have some kind of discount down the line.

Me, I'm pretty dang happy with SE (I have both standard and extended libs). Because I'm a Logic user, I prefer the VI engine as opposed to multi-instrument players like Kontakt 2 or HALion because of the whole CC7 thing. I loaded up 10 instances on my Intel iMac 1.83 the other day and it flew. No probs at all.

I guess that VIP is off for SE...Too bad

VIP – the Vienna Innovation Program. The basic principle of the program is simple: When upgrading to a larger edition of our library, a customer should not have to pay for an existing sample more than once. This will allow our loyal customers to affordably grow with the Vienna Symphonic Library, as we expand to our unprecedented goal of more than 1.5 million samples. VIP customers can upgrade to larger collections crossgrade to future software platforms, benefit from free sample download, enjoy extensive service offers and feel safe in the knowledge that their investment in the future of orchestral music production will last forever.

seba, you are citing a statement from the first & pro edition, where is explained what the VIP price is - the price you pay when upgrading from the first to the pro edition.
this principle has been kept when the horizon series was introduced, just as example the upgrade path from opus to the complete (and _only_ to the complete) pro edition.
this principle has also been kept when the Vienna Instruments were introduced, discounts are given fore every registered sample library on the respective extended libraries of appying collections.

the SE (special edition) now is something *special* - an excerpt of almost 20 Vienna Instruments collections. it is also different from the other collections, because the extended library of SE adds more instruments opposed to expand existing instruments like with the collections of the symphonic cube and the others.

so giving discounts for upgrading from SE to some other VI collection(s) would result in at least 40 different discounts in combination with the already existing ~1500 discounts for various sample librariy to VI cases.
i think it is understandable that such resulting 60.000 cases would be not administrable and therefore have not been taken into consideration.

according to the principle of the upgrade path from opus to complete pro edition there might be some option in the future for users upgrading from SE to the complete package of Vienna Instruments collections once they are all finished, but this is neither an announcement nor a promise ...
christian

"We no longer believe in the spirit behind the Vienna Innovation Program", is what I hear. I for one, agree, that if you buy the VI SE, you shouldn't have to waste that money even if it surmounts to only a 2-5% discount on upgrade products.

I do though understand the problem with the logistics, so is there another option that allows you to stick to the original spirit behind VSL and its never pay twice for the same sample idea? Perhaps you can give anyone who has a registered copy of SE a straight 5% off any VI upgrade path library?

Evan Evans

@evanevans said:

"We no longer believe in the spirit behind the Vienna Innovation Program", is what I hear. I for one, agree, that if you buy the VI SE, you shouldn't have to waste that money even if it surmounts to only a 2-5% discount on upgrade products.

I do though understand the problem with the logistics, so is there another option that allows you to stick to the original spirit behind VSL and its never pay twice for the same sample idea? Perhaps you can give anyone who has a registered copy of SE a straight 5% off any VI upgrade path library?

Evan Evans

Well what do you know - we agree. And your post was even half-decent [6]

If great minds think a like - and you are the greatest mind to walk the earth - what does that make me? [:D]

I think we probably have agreed on a lot, all along, we just had gratingly different ways of saying it.

If you think I am the greatest mind to walk the earth, and you are "a like", then I am not the greatest mind to walk the earth. (ponder that for a while).

Evan Evans

Evan, as a Pro Edition user you're even able to take advantage of two VIP discounts!
When you buy the Vienna Special Edition you're saving $535 (that's almost half the price of the Special Edition's Full Library). When you buy, e.g., the Symphonic Cube, you're saving almost $5,000, taking the upgrade path from the complete Pro Edition to the Symphonic Cube. That's how strongly we believe in the spirit of the Vienna Innovation Program.
Cheers, Martin

I dont know if Evan is talking about his own situation, but I'm not. I'm very happy with my own VIP prices, but that's not the issue. I'm speaking the principle that new users who try on SE dont later get an upgrade path to SC.

@Martin said:

Evan, as a Pro Edition user you're even able to take advantage of two VIP discounts!
When you buy the Vienna Special Edition you're saving $535 (that's almost half the price of the Special Edition's Full Library). When you buy, e.g., the Symphonic Cube, you're saving almost $5,000, taking the upgrade path from the complete Pro Edition to the Symphonic Cube. That's how strongly we believe in the spirit of the Vienna Innovation Program.
Cheers, Martin

Ok Martin. Good point. Thanks for reminding me of that.

Best,
Evan Evans

@cm said:

...the SE (special edition) now is something *special* - an excerpt of almost 20 Vienna Instruments collections. it is also different from the other collections, because the extended library of SE adds more instruments opposed to expand existing instruments like with the collections of the symphonic cube and the others.

so giving discounts for upgrading from SE to some other VI collection(s) would result in at least 40 different discounts in combination with the already existing ~1500 discounts for various sample librariy to VI cases.
i think it is understandable that such resulting 60.000 cases would be not administrable and therefore have not been taken into consideration...
christian

Hi Christian,

I believe you are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole here. Of course, upgrades of SE to SC under your scheme would be a nightmare, but from a business perspective, offering a product that represents an investment of over $1000USD into your product line without any means to leverage that against a deeper business relationship with you makes little sense. For this product, I would suggest forgoing the upgrade idea and instead offer a monetary credit toward upgrade to SC. For example, buy SE extended at roughly $1000 and get a $800 credit toward SC, a roughly $5000 commitment. That way, you encourage people to test the waters with you and then, once amazed, go deeper. The cost of wading in the pool before diving in is net $200 instead of $1000. I would think that for many, the $200 trial is worth it. This is not so different to your current product positioning with the SC -- buy whole thing and save $500 over buying SC one at a time. Just some thoughts.

Yeah there really is no good argument from the consumer perspective to not be given credit towards upgrading from the SE. VSL as a corporation can make all the excuses they want, but if the incentive is not there, it's not friendly to the users.

If you buy SE, than you should be given the right to have a upgrade path. If you don't take that upgrade path, than so be it, you are either happy with just SE or didn't like VSL, but there needs to be a path.

WE SAY SO.

Evan Evans

I don't have a problem with SE being a singular package because heavens, it has an incredible amount of very high quality instruments: many of which I don't own after investing several thousand dollars in five VI collections. I did recieve an upgrade price from the first edition (which cost more than three times SE several years ago.) My ultimate point being that SE appears to be a $1500 or more package if there ever was one. I think the discount is there from day one. Also, even if someone buys 5 collections (as I have) SE owners still have ar least 5-10 more collections represented that I guarentee you they will keep using.

SE is a stunning deal that looked like almost a give-away to me when it first came out.

Yeah, that they respect a discount for current 1stEd and PE owners is valiant. I tried to buy it two days ago but their website wouldn't let me. (Syntax Error came up)

Evan Evans