Folks,

I am flabbergasted....you are right.

I created an arrangement in DP 5.01 and freezed some Vienna Instrument tracks AND suddenly all settings and samples disappeared from all of my VI instances. I forwarded this information to our developers.

I don´t know yet if this error is connected to VI or DP5. I will keep you informed about any news concerning this bug.

Best,

M a y a

@Maya said:

I don´t know yet if this error is connected to VI or DP5. I will keep you informed about any news concerning this bug.M a y a

Maya,

I'm running DP 4.6 so it's at least DP related. A combination of DP/VI it seems unless other platforms have reported the same problem. I'm not aware of any other's with the problem except us motu users.

@garylionelli said:

This is a issue I've been having for months using Vienna Instruments in Digital Performer (versions from 4.61 to 5.01). Occasionally, all the VIs in the DP session file lose their preset assignments. Last night, I had 15 VI tracks in DP, I left the computer for about an hour, came back and all the VI presets were gone. I had been working with the file for days, saving it every 15 minutes on the average. None of the other instruments like Kontakt (in that same session) lost their presets. Their was nothing I could do to get them back other than manually reloading them again.

Thanks,
Gary

I have the same effect sometimes with VI in the Overture 4 VST-Rack and in the forte rack.
Sometimes VI looses the presets in some racks.
And I don't know why.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think it started after the update with Syncrosoft last version!
Because I cannot remember, that it happened before.


[:)] Jovan

Maya -- just got back from vacation and see there's no news on the VI-losing-presets-in-DP-after-bouncing problem. Don't kow how I'll get through this new film without this being fixed. Any progress yet? Many thanks.

Gary

bump

gary--

Mid-project may not be a good time to update, but I'm finding a lot of oddities with VI's gone in 5.1. It's not as smooth an upgrade process as MOTU says it is, but I got it done and my patches are now showing up with no problem now.

I used to have to save every patch-- even the default patches as custom patches through the AU Interface, but now I only have to do that with custom patches and matrices. Makes a lot more sense than it did before.

I may need to re-read the tread more carefully, but the latest version I saw mentioned (by someone) was 4.6. Forgive me if I've missed something in terms of what version is in question at this time.

@garylionelli said:

Maya -- just got back from vacation and see there's no news on the VI-losing-presets-in-DP-after-bouncing problem. Don't kow how I'll get through this new film without this being fixed. Any progress yet? Many thanks.

Gary

Hi Gary,

I don´t have any news so far concerning this.

I´ll keep you informed.

Best,

M a y a

Thanks Maya. JWL–-will give 5.1 a try. Have been holding off because of other plug-in compatibility issues, but if this can even partially solve the VSL VI problem, I'll do it (it's the worst bug by far). Will report back later today. Many thanks for the tip.

Gary

Well, I booted my DP file in DP 5.1, verified that all my VSL VIs had assigned presets in place. Did a single bounce-to-disk and every VSL VI preset disappeared in all 16 instances–as usual. As I said before, MOTU is not looking to remedy this as I've been told, and it's up to VSL. I sure hope this can be fixed soon, and that VSL is giving this issue some priority.

I'm flabbergasted at this. There are a few other issues which MOTU has denied for a long time until pressed hard enough that they finally fixed the issues.

If the problem doesn't exist in Logic or other major DAWs, then I assert it is indeed a host issue.

Maya's test using instances of VI only without NI Kontakt appears to eliminate a plugin conflict. 5 instances of VI can hardly be considered as pushing the limits-- and on a Quad, no less.

Gary, I don't want to flog a dead pony, so to speak, but have you tried the Max Work Percent settings or lowering your work priorities to Medium? The only thing I can think of at this point is how DP diverts CPU cycles for its own purposes rather than for the purposes needed to optimize virtual memory paging.

JWL--yes, I tried all those things last month and no go (but I need my max work percentage higher than medium anyhow). Check your PM.

@garylionelli said:

JWL--yes, I tried all those things last month and no go (but I need my max work percentage higher than medium anyhow). Check your PM.

Got it. PM returned.

Here's hoping for the best.

@JWL said:

If the problem doesn't exist in Logic or other major DAWs, then I assert it is indeed a host issue.

As much as I love to Flog Motu - I don't think this problem is on Motu.

If there were at least one other VI that had this issue than maybe that case could be made but since its only VSL VI - how can the Daw be faulted?

Waves had an issue with recalling presets (not losing them) and ultimately waves had to acknowledge (while not fixing) that it was on there end since no other plugins had a similair issue.

To all at VSL - I can't wait for this issue to be resolved as its the only thing holding up my upgrade purchase!

Ed-- I said what I said because I have had issues with other VIs wonking out in different ways in DP and not in other DAWs. Recently, I had to use Logic to authorize an AU when DP would reject it. Once it passed Logic's AU Exam it worked fine in DP. Also-- one of DP's own VI's had to be manually uninstalled *after* the latest update was done and then reinstalled before it could work. I and others traced this issue to specific DP '.bundle' and '.component' files that were the culprits. It has happened more than once.

At the very least, a fix will have to be the result of a collaborative effort between host and plugin developers.

It's assumed that when a manufacturer announces that their VI will work on a DAW it should really work.
If it has problems on a certain host its seems strange to them blame the DAW.

Clearly there are grey areas in the AU VI spec that can result in compatibility problems.
But I have not heard of Apple going out of their way to make logic more hospitible to VI's that had logic issues. The VI maker had to solve the issue.
In fact Apple changes the AU spec - releases a new logic version and forces Plug makers to deal with it.

Same should apply to VI's that support Motu.

So are you suggesting that Motu should actually change their code to suit the one VI that has a bizarre problem. In fact its the only plug I have ever heard of that loses its presets after bouncing.
And IF motu were to change code to suit VSL VI - what happens when the new code causes problems for other VI's that were previously stable?

I'm not being argumentitive here. I think motu is an arrogant company and their tech support kids are shmuckheads sometimes but at least THEY HAVE tech support.(miss you logic support guys!)

Point of fact that I agree with you that motu should bend over backwards to help plug makers in every way possible.
Motu is in third place (PT, Logic) and should always be worried that sometimes the third place company ends up not finishing the race.
Motu should works is butt off to be the most stable DAW in the market and the most stable with ever VI and plug out there. That would go a long way to earn them more market share.

It just seems that logic/apple gets a free pass on issues like this and motu always gets beat up.

no other VI has the "losing presets" issue so its a VSL problem. One that I can't wait for to be fixed!
Best wishes to the VI programmers in solving it.

@edhamilton said:

no other VI has the "losing presets" issue so its a VSL problem. One that I can't wait for to be fixed!

I would concede that such cases with VI have been more widely cited, but it has indeed happened before with DP where samples and audio have been dumped without reason. I recognize that these problems may not be directly related, but I have no confirmation that they are unrelated.

If VI is dumping settings in other DAWs in addition to DP, then this narrows things down greatly.

Like you, I only hope that the problem is recognized and remedied. Regardless of who is at fault, I just hope that the problem is brought to the attention to whomever is responsible for fixing it.

While there are other options out there, I must continue to care because of the substantial investment I've made which cannot be recovered.

JWL - agreed on all points.

Your last point about "substantial investment" is an interesting one.
It used to be that we invested a few hundred bucks and ALOT of time in our sequencers. When studiovision died it was a drag that many had to invest a ton of time learning a new sequencer but financially it was only a few hundred bucks lost.
And our hardware synths/samplers/mixers/effects all worked together as advertised and actually had a resale value.

Now we all have a huge investment in software that has no resale value and from time to time no longer works together!
We are at the mercy of the developers to maintain an impossible compatibility list to make our software work for us.
Add in things like Apple moving to Intel and ..... wow.... tough job.

In many ways VSL deserves kudos for the VI. For a version 1 app things have gone pretty well with the software itself. Factor in how innovative it is and it looks like quite an achievement.
The synchrosoft problems are a disaster and its a shame that it has undoubtedly hindered wider adoption of the VI. Even with the improved (faster) load times it still concerns me.

But I have to give VSL a pass on the VI's problems in DP. Its still a version one app and while I am bummed that the VI has a problem with my prefered daw I am sure they will work it out in due course.

But any info VSL could give as to a timetable for a fix would be most welcome! [[;)]]

JWL - I just read a couple threads about your syncrosoft issues and install problems.

Dude, you have the patients of a saint and I'm sorry if I seemed argumentative with you even a tiny bit!

May your syncrosoft/DP/install issues be solved soon!

@edhamilton said:

JWL - I just read a couple threads about your syncrosoft issues and install problems.

Dude, you have the patients of a saint and I'm sorry if I seemed argumentative with you even a tiny bit!

May your syncrosoft/DP/install issues be solved soon!

Ed, you're a champ and a trooper, dude.

Yep, we've got LCC issues big time. VI is completely down for the count for a few days. I've got to finish a demo and spent half of today getting VSL-PE winds back up and running. For the rest I have no choice but to use Miroslav Philharmonik. I was tempted to jump in on EQELSO since Soundsonline.com has a discount that ends Thursday night at midnight, but another $3500 would get me into a MacPro, which I'd rather have.

Actually, it looks as if I'll be involved in a dimploma program that will qualify me for educational discounts. Between that and possible cross-grades, I could be looking at Nuendo and a whole non-MOTU audio/midi setup sooner than later.

I have Logic, and though it's a little more savvy with virtual instruments, I'm splitting up tasks between DAWs. It's a pain, but no matter how patient I try to be I can't shake the shadow of depression that all of this software sends me flying headlong into a brick wall more often than I care to confess.

Punchline to an old joke: "What? And give up show business?"

All I know is that to lose hope is to lose. To miss a deadline is to lose, as well!

But what can you do?

VSL -- I know you're all working very hard on this, but any ETA yet, or any hopeful news in general such as you've found (or MOTU) what's causing the problem are are implementing a fix? Would appreciate being kept in the loop.

Many thanks,
Gary