That's right. It happens when I bounce down without fail. Here's the workaround: You have to save the presets within VI so you can open them back up. You can't just save as a Performer document. Everytime you add to your matrix you have to save that change or you will only get what is saved as a preset independant of DP. Better yet: what I do is re-save DP as "xxxbounce" and let the presets disappear then open my working file and repeat the process.

Save your presets in VI.


EDIT - In reading the above posts I'm surprised that things are disappearing that have been saved within VI - that's very bad. Have you experimented with this? I have DP 4.6.1 maybe things are worse in DP 5?

In DP 5.01, have you tried adjusting Prime Seconds, Work Quanta, and Max Work Percent?

Work Quanta is perhaps the most significant of these three features in this case since it regulates the rate at which DP updates its calculations.

All three features serve to balance where DP applies its resources and how it might prioritize it.

More info about these features is found in the DP 5.01 PDF addendum, p. 5.

But such is the case with large projects. Even with Logic, resources get a certain priority at times. Things can disappear, notes and keyswitches can cut off prematurely, or not get triggered at all. Unfortunately, large projects with something like VI can leave little CPU headroom. Extra RAM can give OSX more wiggle room to do calculations instead of paging out tasks of all sorts to virtual memory and back in again. I just can't sort out how some people I know are managing at all with less that 2-3 GB (not sure what you folks have installed...)

Thanks JWL, maybe I'll try some different WQ values. BTW, I'm on a Quad, 8 GB RAM.

@garylionelli said:

Thanks JWL, maybe I'll try some different WQ values. BTW, I'm on a Quad, 8 GB RAM.

Gary-- you've got the king of the PPC's. I can't understand why ANYTHING would be vanishing on your system.

It does make me wonder about what's really going on with OSX and the G5 in general. Certain types of numbers crunching on Duals with less RAM are often blamed on such problms.

Not many people have 8Gs of RAM and not many have FOUR processors at their beckon call. That's what blows me away that you, of all people, have reported this sort of issue.

I hope the WQ settings help, but truly-- I am honestly stumped!

I've always suspected this problem had to do with VI actually running outside of DP. It may not be entirely stabile in it's integration with the program.

What is consistent here is that freezing and or bouncing (both rendering functions) is causing this problem. I have 6.5 gigs of ram on a Dual 2.7 and others here have high performance machines as well so it doesn't appear to be due to stressing resources. In my case I'm just bouncing stereo files down and not directly freezing a VI track. It's a bug whatever it is.

I hope our friends here are watching this thread.

JWL -- interesting, you know I was really pushing things with that particular DP file. I had 16 Vienna Inst., 32 Kontakt tracks, Absynth, lots of Waves plugs, and I did get it to the point where I used up all the RAM available. Kontakt can only access, what, I think 2 GB of RAM, while Vienna (as I understand) uses its own memory block (which has to be true or I wouldn't have been able to open 16 VIs alongside 32 Kontakt tracks. So, maybe this situation caused the preset dumping. Will report this to MOTU, or is it Vienna's issue to fix?

Thanks,
Gary

16 VI's and 32 Kontakts plus, plus, plus...? [[[[:|]]]] [[[[:|]]]] [[[[:|]]]]

Gee, wiz. My feeble 2.5 would have gone into meltdown long before that. [:O]ops:

@dpcon said:

That's right. It happens when I bounce down without fail. Here's the workaround: You have to save the presets within VI so you can open them back up. You can't just save as a Performer document. Everytime you add to your matrix you have to save that change or you will only get what is saved as a preset independant of DP. Better yet: what I do is re-save DP as "xxxbounce" and let the presets disappear then open my working file and repeat the process.

Dave -- I'm not creating any matrixes in my Vienna VIs right now. How do you mean you are saving them (I'm not using the standalone version)? Do you mean saving in the matrix area, even if you don't have a matrix? Thanks.

Gary

Gary,

In the window that says: Vienna Instruments AudioUnit-Server Interface (With the Show Window button) there is a mini menu in the top left hand corner where you will find a SAVE SETTINGS option. Here you can save whatever is loaded in a given instance of VI. It doesn't matter how you have set up the instances: it will save a single instrument if that's all or a full matrix. You can also load what you have saved from here as well.

That way if things disappear you can retrieve them because it's a save within VI as opposed to a regular DP save.

Try it - I just tested it and it worked fine.

Thanks Dave -- I tried that before (and now again) but can only save a single instance's preset. If I try to save a second VI preset, it looks as if it was saved OK, but it's nowhere to be found in the folder I saved it to. Strange.

You are renaming when you save the additional instance? And this doesn't save? Also you are adding the second instance from ADD TRACK in the Project menu?

Sorry for dumb questions just trying to get what's happening.

Hey Dave, thanks. I was not quite getting a few things as to where the presets were being saved, but I undertand it now. Even though I a specified a folder that I created, it was then saving subsequent presets in a Vienna folder inside the Library folder (and I ddin't notice that!). Thanks again.

Gary

I figured it was something like that. It's a little tricky all that.

You should at least now be able to avoid DP blitzing your settings as long as you keep saving within VI.

I heard from MOTU this morning re the VI losing presets.

They wrote:

When we first introduced instrument tracks and track freezing back in 4.1, we had this problem with nearly all instruments. We resolved it back in 4.5 (Kontakt, Trilogy, Stylus, Atmosphere, etc.). So this appears, at least on the surface, to be a fault of the plug-in developer.

So, it seems that the ball is Vienna's court to fix this. Hope this can be fixed soon.

Well at least there's a history of this bug that's known. I hope our friends here are watching. I don't know if MOTU is quite off the hook however. None of those other VI's run outside of DP so it's doubtful MOTU has looked at it from that angle. I imagine they're done with any imrpvements on DP4 in any case.

Hi,

I was unable so far to reproduce the problems you encountered. I launched 4 Vienna Instruments in DP 5.0 and loaded a Preset to each of them. 2 presets were built by myself and I saved them to my Custom Data folder. One preset was also built by myself, but I didn´t save it.

I left the computer alone for approx. 10 hours and when I got back everything was still playing back smoothly.

Am I missing something?

Do you have any Energy Saver Settings turned on?


M a y a

@Maya said:

Am I missing something?M a y a

Yes Maya. You should bounce some audio files together and freeze some tracks as well. Only when I do a bounce (in DP 4.6) do things vanish. Try bouncing within Performer and try bouncing while exporting at the same time. Other folks are having trouble freezing tracks (a type of bounce as well) which I don't really do so I couldn't say.

Thank you!

k, will try this and let you know what happened.

M a y a

Hi Maya -- great that you're looking into this. I've been working with a DP file that has 16 Vienna VIs and 32 Kontakt tracks in 2 instances, and more, so I'm really pushing the memory requirements. Maybe you could try working with a dense project file like this in conjunction with freezing, bouncing to disk, exporting, etc.

As long as I don't bounce or freeze, I'm OK. Thanks to these guys here on the board at least now I can get some work done knowing what to expect if I have to freeze or bounce.

Many thanks,
Gary

Perhaps I should have mentioned that I had quite a bit loaded into ram as well. I was crashing quite a bit when I pushed my ram limits but that was solved by going from 4.5 to 6.5 gigs of ram. I'm not aware of any change with the bounce problem by increasing physical ram. But I may be wrong.

I'll do some tests.