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  4. Perfect Legato Divisi Violins?

  • Perfect Legato Divisi Violins?

    O
    O
    Is it the case that Perf Legato string instruments cannot play divisi? That has been my experience to date. Please correct me if I am wrong. Thx, OJ [[;)]]
  • P
    P
    Performance Legato patches are monophonic. In that sense, a unison line cannot be divided. But anyone with the Chamber Strings could take the smaller ensemble legato sounds (three violins, for example) and play three or four instances to achieve the same effect. Indeed, this is why many people buy the Chamber Strings for orchestral settings.
  • C
    C
    Or you could simply load the violins into a new patch, change their panning and/or apply EQ. Then just play the the 2nd violin line.
  • J
    J
    To do this I think you have to rename one of the performance instruments otherwise they get confused with 2 instances with the same name open - at least in EXS 24.

    Julian
  • C
    C
    Here is a thread with more or less the same question

    http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=7276&iframe=true
  • J
    J
    This thread also dealt with the re-naming requirement.


    Julian

    http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=7250
  • O
    O
    Thanks for the replys. I really appreciate it. I have VSL, Opus 1 and Solo Strings which I use with Kontakt 2 and Digital Performer. I have tried loading two instances of VL-14_PERF-LEG_F into Kontakt (which I have tried assigning to two different channels and to the same channel). I have also loaded into Performance Tool the Violin Tool Template. I have tried using various combinations (i.e. Violin Template on different channels, different ports, same channels same port, different tracks, same track, or any variations thereof). And Performance Tool is properly set up in Digital Performer (I have tried setting the 2 instances of the same VSL instrument on two separate tracks and to the same track and tried various combinations of channels to tracks without success) I have not yet gotten any divisi sound, and most of the time I get a dreadful cacaphony of stuck notes.
    I have read the earlier thread (How do VLs work with 1st and 2nd violins?-cerca Jan. 6) regarding this same subject in which Herb says that several instances of the same instrument can be loaded at the same time. How would that all work in order to achieve divisi with the Performance Tool string instruments? Thx, OJ
  • P
    P
    Herb commented on how it would work with the upcoming VIs, not about EXS or Giga. Renaming isn't necessary in GigaStudio, a second instance of an articulation could easily be loaded in the channel you like.

    All the best,
    PolarBear
  • O
    O
    Hi Polar Bear (et al)-I have Kontakt and it looks like you cannot save any instruments in order to be able to re-name them. It looks as if the re-naming business might work with perhaps Logic but not with Kontakt. The thread in which Herb's comment re this subject is found (see Christian Marcussen's comment above) quotes him as saying simply that several instances of the same instrument can be loaded. I can't seem to make that work. It sounds as if he is talking about the present instead of the future development of VSL. If it's in the present I would like to know how to go about it. If it's in the future I'd like to know what programs I should get in order to be able to go about it. I think it is important to be able to play divisi passages, so if you or anyone else have any comments, they would be very welcome. Thx, OJ [[;)]]
  • N
    N
    Hi OJ,
    If you use the updated Kontakt2 instruments you should have no problem loading two instances on the same midi channel and then doing some EQ as Christian suggested. You don't have to rename anything in Kontakt.
    I don't know how things would be setup if you use the performance tool, but with the new scripted K2 programs you no longer need it, right.

    Best,
    Nils
  • O
    O
    I heard from a reliable VSL source not long ago that Performance Tool will not be outmoded by scripted instruments. I have loaded two instances of VIOLIN ENS 14 [LEGATO] (which I've been told is scripted) into Kontakt2 from the Kontakt/VSL Library that comes with Kontakt2 and assigned both of them to channel 1 in Digital Performer. Both play at the same time but not legato together. One or the other of the instruments will play a short staccato note while the other continues legato. Not much of a possibility for divisi or a second violin section. It seems that divisi will not work with either Performance Tool or with the scripted instruments. Divisi works very well with the non Performance Tool instruments however. Thanks for any further thoughts on this matter, OJ [[;)]]
  • N
    N
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    @orijames said:

    I heard from a reliable VSL source not long ago that Performance Tool will not be outmoded by scripted instruments. I have loaded two instances of VIOLIN ENS 14 [LEGATO] (which I've been told is scripted) into Kontakt2 from the Kontakt/VSL Library that comes with Kontakt2 and assigned both of them to channel 1 in Digital Performer. Both play at the same time but not legato together. One or the other of the instruments will play a short staccato note while the other continues legato. Not much of a possibility for divisi or a second violin section. It seems that divisi will not work with either Performance Tool or with the scripted instruments. Divisi works very well with the non Performance Tool instruments however. Thanks for any further thoughts on this matter, OJ [[;)]]


    The only limitation of the scripted K2 instruments is that alternation is a bit simpler. Legato and repetition are both fully implemented, and there's no need to use the external performance tool for that any longer. The scripted versions are placed in a folder named 'K2-Instruments', so that's an easy way to check if you're really using the scripted instruments. Since the legato is integrated into the K2 instrument (.nki file), each instrument will play independantly of the others. So your problems seem to indicate to me that you're not using the updated K2 instruments. But I could be wrong.

    Edit: To install the scripted instruments one needs to download the file 'Opus1Kontakt2_V1.exe' for Opus 1 from the user area at VSL. Have you done that?

    Best,
    Nils
  • P
    P
    My Kontakt knowledge is limited, because I don't use it, but you could try to load a second instance of the legato on a seperate MIDI channel.

    And Herb definately commented about the not yet released Vienna Instruments to Hermitage (who is using it now in Logic and EXS afaik), I just opened the thread again to doublecheck it [:D] . But regardless, you should be able to open multiple instances of any articulation in any environment for all VSL libraries (and as Herb said also for the new VIs, the Vienna Instruments).

    All the best,
    PolarBear
  • O
    O
    This is big news to me. Performance Tool is obsolete and has been replaced by scripted instruments? Paul himself told me a few months ago that Performance Tool would continue to be one of the most important components of VSL. Lord! Lord! All the time and effort I put into making it work-I just got a grip on Repetition Mode. And now its all as passe as the horse and buggie. Does anyone know whats going on with this? I must be very out of touch with reality. Herb, we need you. And Polar Bear-what thread are you talking about. The one mentioned in the link above given by Christian Marcussen or another one I am not aware of? I thank you for your help. And Nils, Thx. I downloaded Opus 1 and Solo Strings for Kontakt2. I got a folder labeled Instruments, instead of K2 Instruments, but maybe its the same. At any rate, it still contains Legato Perf Instruments that look like they still need Performance Tool to operate. Are they all scripted or only some of them? Thx again, OJ
  • N
    N
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    @orijames said:

    This is big news to me. Performance Tool is obsolete and has been replaced by scripted instruments? Paul himself told me a few months ago that Performance Tool would continue to be one of the most important components of VSL. Lord! Lord! All the time and effort I put into making it work-I just got a grip on Repetition Mode. And now its all as passe as the horse and buggie. Does anyone know whats going on with this? I must be very out of touch with reality. Herb, we need you. And Polar Bear-what thread are you talking about. The one mentioned in the link above given by Christian Marcussen or another one I am not aware of? I thank you for your help. And Nils, Thx. I downloaded Opus 1 and Solo Strings for Kontakt2. I got a folder labeled Instruments, instead of K2 Instruments, but maybe its the same. At any rate, it still contains Legato Perf Instruments that look like they still need Performance Tool to operate. Are they all scripted or only some of them? Thx again, OJ


    Well, the performance tool is no longer needed (except for alternation more advanced than 1+2 switching), but what you have learnt about VSL through working with it isn't obsolete. It's still the same samples so all you know about arranging VSL instruments, and choosing among articulations and different performance elements still apply. The transition to scripted instruments took place some months ago and was announced in these forums. At the moment Kontakt2 is the only platform to support scripting, so all other samplers (except the new VI of course) still use the performance tool.

    The 'Instruments' folder is not the same, so you probably downloaded the old files. You can find the new scripted programs under 'Updates / Kontakt2 Programs' in the user area (not under Downloads).

    Best,
    Nils
  • P
    P
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    @Christian Marcussen said:

    Here is a thread with more or less the same question

    http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=7276&iframe=true


    Tryin' not to beat a dead horse, this one [:D] I'm sorry for mixing up with user area with download area (user area meaning the thing where you have several subpages, the download section being on of those)...

    PolarBear
  • O
    O
    Thank you everybody for your responses. Much appreciated. I now have Kontakt2 working very well with K2 Instruments. Polar Bear: I looked at the thread you mention again. Herb, in his reply to Hermitage, merely said, "That is correct, you can open multiple instances of the same instrument." I am unable to coax out of that sentence anything to do with, as you say, "how it would work with the upcoming VLs, not EXS or Giga." (or, as you said earlier, "Herb definately commented about the not yet released Vienna Instruments to Hermitage, who is using it now in Logic and EXS afaik). Am I still missing something? (I thank you, by the way, for your always helpful comments). I think the real dead horse here is Performance Tool, at least as it has to do with Kontakt, but I think it was, and still is a very significant development. In a recent article, the New York Times claims that learning Video Games can raise the intelligence. Maybe having learned Performance Tool will bring about a greater understanding of VSL. I will take this Scripted Instruments and Performance Tool topic up again in the Vienna Symphonic Library section of the Forum. Thx again, OJ [[;)]]