@Martin said:

There seems to be a lot of confusion about release dates, lost orders, and all kinds of stuff that emerges from the NAMM show floor which is out of the range of our control...

Here's the offical statement, everything else is false rumours which we ask you to ignore.

The first five Collections (Solo Strings, Chamber Strings, Orchestral Strings I + II, Woodwinds I) will be shipping by mid-February.

Cheers, Martin

The confusion, Martin, isn't from NAMM, it's from VSL.

1) A group of us accepted your Early Bird Offer and paid HALF the cost of the VI collection with the understanding that the first portion would be DELIVERED late January. While I haven't seen it, I understand there's a post from Herb on the forum informing us that the DVDs would be sent to duplication before NAMM, so that immediately after NAMM, we'd be sent the first group of instruments. That's what we agreed to, and prepaid VSL for.

2) Since you knew there would be a delay, why didn't you e-mail those of us who prepaid? You had the time to send out an official VSL Newsletter inviting us to hear Paul do a demo but you didn't have time to write us or put up a post stating that there would be a delay?

3) Your distributors are legally obligated to write us if they can't ship within the time frame we agreed to. So they need to get those letters out immediately with realistic shipping dates, including when we should expect our cards to be run for the final balance.

4) If you can't ship everything when you get back from NAMM, what can you ship in January and when?

Here's what it says on the ILIO Site:

Symphonic Cube Early Bird Offer

Be among the first to receive the single Symphonic Cube Collections as they become available and get the exclusive Vienna Konzerthaus Organ for FREE!

1. Order the complete Symphonic Cube including its Standard Libraries or Complete Libraries by January 6th, 2006.

2. 50% of the Symphonic Cube bundle price will be collected from your credit card when you order.

3. The first five Collections (Solo Strings, Chamber Strings, Orchestral Strings I, Orchestral Strings II, Woodwinds I) will be shipped to you in January 2006.

see: http://www.ilio.com/vsl-holiday.html


We agreed to and paid for delivery IN January per the terms VSL and its distributors proposed and accepted our payments for.

It would be different, if in knowing ahead of time there was going to be a delay VSL posted something about it, but you didn't. Instead, you let us find out about it from a NAMM post at Northern Sounds. So of course some of us are mad.

You and all the VSL distributors need to fix this today. You have a lot of money from us. It was given in good faith and we're due better than this.

PA

In all fairness, ILIO was very cool about it. When I purchased the early bird special they told me before taking my credit card that it would be possibly early March. The folks in the VSL booth at NAMM said that the DVD's are at the press now but it's not instintaneous so it will take a couple of weeks to print then package, ship to distributors then to us. So in the US by late Feb early March at the latest. This did come directly from VSL personnel at the NAMM show but still treat it as rumor.

We're sorry there's a slight delay, we can't ship in January. Peter, if you're mad at us, please let ILIO know if you want to withdraw your order an we'll return your money immediately.
Cheers, Martin

Thanks Martin.

I think Peter's concerns are like mine, we (the paying early birds) are not being updated officially through this website, or via our distributors of any delays. Instead we get to hear about things via the rumour mill.

Perhaps you guys can keep us informed better in the future, maybe even letting us know when pressing is complete, shipping to distributors has commenced and an ETA for arrival in our respective countries (UK, US).

Regards


Tim

And please a word about the stress-test results we are still waiting for...

Gerard

@Martin said:

We're sorry there's a slight delay, we can't ship in January. Peter, if you're mad at us, please let ILIO know if you want to withdraw your order an we'll return your money immediately.
Cheers, Martin

The ONLY reason, we're having this discussion is because

1) rather than e-mailing us before NAMM, or putting up a post on the forum, you let us find out from a post on Northern Sounds that there would be a significant delay to our original agreement of receiving product in January. That's like a football coach hearing on the radio he's been fired!

2) you ran our credit cards before shipping rather than at the point of shipping. Those of us who advanced you the money did so with the understanding we would have product, as clearly advertised on our distributor's web site, in January.

When you've run our credit cards for this much money, you have an obligation to inform us directly rather than having us find out from a post on Northern Sounds.

Having advanced you this money in good faith, with virtually no demos to go by, I don't think I'm being unfair in pointing out that your communication to those of us who advanced VSL and your distributors this much money needs to be greatly improved.

Please don't insult me or anyone else with the suggestion that we can get a refund from our distributor. That's a little unfair since you have our money.

These things seems to become the norm!

I can remember when I put down a lot of money for the EWQL SO Platinum Pro XP.

They broke their promises so often I lost count. I had to wait over a year to finally get it, only to get insulted that they immediately sold it with heavy discounts to regular customers that bought when it actually was released. I never understood why I paid early....

Now I can see similar things starting to happen with Vienna.

All this has the consequences that I will not order early anymore. Period.
You guys can't be trusted.

I'm fed up with all these 'early bird', special offers, Christmas discount, anniversary discount, group buys, NAMM discount, bla bla

If it was down to me, let's have just one price. And we all pay the same once it's been released. So no one is going to be pis@ed off anymore.

If developers need funds go to your bank. [8-)]

Steve

I like the way the release dates have all slipped on the Product Info pages to February 2006 and March 2006 [:@] [[;)]]

Does this mean you guys don't expect any more slips for the Brass and Percussion?

@timkiel said:

I like the way the release dates have all slipped on the Product Info pages to February 2006 and March 2006 [:@] [[;)]]

Does this mean you guys don't expect any more slips for the Brass and Percussion?

Hey folks, go to the thread about the "lost orders." Chris Marin has given a very cogent answer that I can support regarding the delay. If only someone had told us this before NAMM, things would have been so much simpler.

i feel it's sad how quickly the VSL reputation has reversed in the last 2 / 3 months

from good, honest guys who i felt we were a model to other sample companies.. (the spectrasonics of the orchestral world) .. to "i'm not sure i'd trust em anymore", ..dates missed (pre orders), promises broken (vip upgrade policy) ..v sad.

i'm sure they're all lovely guys.. but somewhere i think the "look after your customer base" has been forgotten


i hope it all eventually straightens out

...

and all this is coming from someone who so publicly waved VSLs flag for them ..

i'd like to again.


come one guys .. please put yourselves into the customers heads for a minute..

how does all this look ?


communicate and listen ... 2 most important things that seem to have been forgotten


bottom line... nothing comes close to the work you are doing with samples..we all respect your work totally..but its the other side of things that is freaking a few of us out..

@fitch said:

i feel it's sad how quickly the VSL reputation has reversed in the last 2 / 3 months.................

In your opinion; not in mine [8-)]

DG

as i said .. i was careful not to presume your opinion DG ..


there's always 2 sides... i totally appreciate that..

but it's good to air both sides.. not to feel as though all we are allowed to say is one side..


so..

as i said ... i was careful not to presume anyone elses opinion..

we all count

Point well made but hopefully VSL will rebound from this. In the US we see present examples of American auto manufacuters who really stopped listening to their customer base a few years ago - the results....

...Foreign auto mfg's own a whopping 40% of the US car market. Really unbelievable when one thinks about it!! All of the big three here have laid off 140,000 workers in the last year, closed factories, etc.

Great thing about the free market economy is that we vote with our pocket books - no better way.

Having said all that - I think what VSL is going through is no different from any other successful company experiencing growing pains. They'll sort through all this and supply us with continually better and better tools to make our customers continue to buy from us [[;)]]

I support VSL (one the of the early birds on VI) and I believe in what they are doing - but one caveat - keep listening to your customer base as you have in the past - IMHO it is one of the reasons why you are so successful.

As you well know, the beauty of this action is we will 'tell' you how to get the highest return on YOUR investment - guaranteed. [:D]


Rob

I agree with Rob 100%. I keeping "harping" on a few critical points because these customer communication issues are just as much a part of the quality control process as making sure of the A.U. issues for the Mac.

Our buying into the Early Bird special with little to no demos was a significant vote of confidence. And again, a vote worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. With that kind of backing and financial support, it is the smallest of courtesies to e-mail about an impending delay and how that will affect running the credit cards for the second payment..