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  3. Uneven violin note in Opus 1?

  • Uneven violin note in Opus 1?

    M
    M
    http://www.samhulick.com/misc/uneven_vi.mp3

    I actually had to avoid using this and had to use GOS, because it just sounded horrible in the mix. There are other disappointing things I've noticed, such as very jarring timbre changes while playing the violins perf legato, e.g. you jump from one note to another, and the 2nd note is muffled sounding.

    Feel free to comment on any of this...
  • C
    C
    nm... When I posted something was wrong with my soundcard and it distorted the file...

    I cant really here whats wrong?
  • M
    M
    It's uneven.. inconsistent. Almost as if there's a drop in dynamics... though I'm just holding a note without changing anything (like the mod wheel).
  • M
    M
    I'd also like to point this out:

    http://www.samhulick.com/misc/bad_legato.mp3

    Cellos perf legato. Now, contrast this to the woodwinds... which sound great. All you have to do is load up the clarinet, or flute, for example, and play. It's magical, really. But the strings legato sound horrible... jumpy, and disconnected. Why? Why do the strings not sound as perfect as the Opus woodwinds? Or the legato brass? (solo trumpet, yum)
  • F
    F
    Hi Sam, I know what you mean. In fact I found the legato strings patches of VSL really hard to use too... [:(]

    I was guessing it's probably because they recorded all legato and portamento on the same string. I mean, say, you play an open G on the violin, then the G an octave above, you are getting that "muffled" sound coz it's a "sul G" note. And the nightmare comes when you play an F a second down the G then it will automatically switch to using the D string, which causes the timbre difference.... and thanks to the silent stage this timbre difference is amplified so much even the deaf will notice it! [:D]

    I found I can only apply the legato patch once in a while to stay away from this trouble, or not using it entirely.... which kind of sucks. If you are gonna play the entire melody with a legato patch you will need to tweak so many things that you would probably be happier to use the sustain patch instead! [:P]

    Or another way is to make sure the entire violin melody which is gonna be played on the E string instead hehe! Which gonna be very limiting to your creation.


    Frankie
  • J
    J
    Yes, it seems that the legatos for strings in Opus are the weakest of the set... the portamentos are good, legatos for woodwinds and brass are wonderful.. but the ones for strings.. I find it difficult to use them effectively... A full melody rarely comes out as one would wish... whenever I do use them (which is rare, because the needed ram load makes it impractical) it is usually just to have an isolated 'transition' sound - simply the interval from one note to the other.
    Of all the sections, I find the cellos the least satisfactory...
  • M
    M
    I find myself wondering if the VSL Perf Set legato strings are better than Opus 1, in this aspect.
  • D
    D
    You are correct in that your example sounds dreadful, however it would be a lot of help if you could post your MIDI file so that I can load it up in my system without making any changes and test it for you with the Perf set .

    DG
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    @MDesigner said:

    I find myself wondering if the VSL Perf Set legato strings are better than Opus 1, in this aspect.
    Dont count on it. [:(] You can find loads of topics here through the years, with people expressing concern about the legato strings.

    I like the violin though - the subtle changes makes it sound more alive IMHO.
  • P
    P
    I am sorry that I have to chime in with the same opinion. I find the legato strings in Opus 1 hardly usable. There is no binding of notes, each new note starts with a crescendo, giving that typical "old library" effect, which it actually was supposed to improve upon. Furthermore, I can hardly hear any note-to-note transition. It just does not sound like a string section playing notes on the same string in one bow stroke.

    For faster lines the Opus 1 legato patches are even completely useless.

    If you compare the excellent French Horns legatos with the string legatos you really wonder what went wrong in the recording and/or editing of the strings.
  • R
    R
    Regarding the timbre changes...they occur in various instruments and in some cases they are very obvious. For example, if you listen to the VI demos, you well hear several examples of these "unnatural" sounding timbre changes.

    As the samples in the VI's are locked up, the user has no chance of correcting this, so the greater the need for these problems to be fixed. Besides the timbre changes, there is also some crossfade phasing (again listen to the VI demos).

    VSL sounds great, and VI is a brilliant tool...but IMHO, at this point in time...the VI is primarily for users who want ease of use and quick results...but if you want the best quality and most convincing end results possible, then I think the "old" library formats are still of greater interest and will probably not tempt you to move into VI.

    Just my 2 cents.

    R
  • M
    M
    I'm not trying to just complain randomly.. I guess what I'm wondering is, does the VSL team think this is OK? I don't understand. Everything else in the library is of top-notch quality. Did anyone even test the strings out? Did they play around with the legato strings, and hear how bad it sounds, and release it anyway?

    I don't intend to sound mean or overly critical, but I really do want to know what they were thinking. Part of the reason I invested in this library was for the legato strings. I'm disappointed to find that they are mostly unusable.
  • H
    H
    I really work a lot with with the legato strings. I always use them without a problem whenever a legato line for strings is recommended.
    Personally I prefer stacking solo or chamber strings with the large strings for controlling vibrato intensity and timbre.

    some examples:

    Princess Leias Theme
    http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3920/4538.vsl

    Danse Macabre
    http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3920/4057.vsl

    Violin ensemble + solo violin (here you hear exclusively performance legato of ensemble violins stacked with solo violin)
    http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3959/3735/3784/3785.vsl#

    Here is a topic link where I've posted some midifiles.
    http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?p=35865#35865

    Further a lot of the other classic and user demos also featuring the strings legati extensively.

    best
    Herb
  • M
    M
    Danse Macabre sounded pretty good. Leia's theme didn't sound so hot to me (the violins towards the middle & end). They sounded a bit "lurchy".

    Here's an example of a clip I don't think VSL/Opus legato cellos could do:

    http://www.samhulick.com/misc/tallis.mp3

    If someone can prove me wrong, I'd be more than happy to say I was wrong. [:)] I'd be thrilled if this were possible.
  • P
    P
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    Hello Herb,

    I am confused. Are these demos using the SAME string legato articulations as are included in the Opus 1 package? Or are there actually other, smoother legato articulations in the Pro Edition that were used in these demos?

    @herb said:

    I really work a lot with with the legato strings. I always use them without a problem whenever a legato line for strings is recommended.
    Personally I prefer stacking solo or chamber strings with the large strings for controlling vibrato intensity and timbre.

    some examples:

    Princess Leias Theme
    http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3920/4538.vsl

    Danse Macabre
    http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3920/4057.vsl

    Violin ensemble + solo violin (here you hear exclusively performance legato of ensemble violins stacked with solo violin)
    http://vsl.co.at/en-us/67/3959/3735/3784/3785.vsl#

    Here is a topic link where I've posted some midifiles.
    http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?p=35865#35865

    Further a lot of the other classic and user demos also featuring the strings legati extensively.

    best
    Herb
  • F
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    @Peter Roos said:

    I am confused. Are these demos using the SAME string legato articulations as are included in the Opus 1 package? Or are there actually other, smoother legato articulations in the Pro Edition that were used in these demos?

    I have been wondering the same thing too.

    In fact, ironically, I NEVER get the legato strings to sound legato at all! They are always choppy as if I was playing a succession of sfz notes. Unlike the winds and brass which sound so beautiful right out of the box.

    Been trying many different settings in the performance tool and it won't help too much. The only thing I can do is to add a long tail with the +RC patch but that makes the strings sound very fake and synthy.

    Frankie
  • D
    D
    Still waiting for that MIDI file.............. [:(]

    DG
  • C
    C
    I too have noticed a large varience in timbres from one string patch to the next. Trying to make 14v Leg, SUS, and sfz all sound like they came from the same session is nearly impossible. Perhaps when layered it isn't as noticable but when soloed out it doesn't sound right at all.
    -Chris
  • M
    M
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    @DG said:

    Still waiting for that MIDI file.............. [:(]

    DG


    Right. Sorry DG, it was a quick test and I didn't save it or anything. I'll come up with one later when I have time, and post it here.
  • D
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    @DG said:

    Still waiting for that MIDI file.............. [:(]

    DG


    Right. Sorry DG, it was a quick test and I didn't save it or anything. I'll come up with one later when I have time, and post it here.

    No problem, I would just like to test it in the Pro Edition for you before I try to give advice.

    DG