Hi CM

For added clairity I suggest you write (Standard+Extended) below the text which says "Full Library". It could sound like its a third product if people haven't paid enough attention [:)]

@dpcon said:

It seems to me VSL had a difficult but obvious choice because they could have kept to the letter of their original agreement and not invested in and developed VI. Their obligation was limited to the original formats of Giga and EXS. So they could have made everyone happy by staying with those formats with their upgrade paths. VI is a choice in favor of their customers because they can now access twice the number of samples on there platforms and make use of all the articulations we either don't or can't use (due to time or memory limitations or even difficulty in using the performance tool with repititions and such.)

They have streamlined and optimized are original investment potential but this was a big time and money investment for them. It may [i]appear[/i] unfair or a change in original promises but the promise of a great library that would grow and improve has been very well kept and exceeded.

These things cost money as we all know so we deal with this reality. But we can all enter a new reality in our music making that we wouldn't have if we merely upgraded and didn't pay for the same sample twice. I would rather [i]play[/i] twice as many samples per midi channel than not pay for them. Except it's not twice as many it's exponentially beyond.

So I'll pay twice and hear ten times more: creativity wins the day. How often does that happen?

dave, while many of these statements ring true, they are far from universal. many people aren't happy precisely because the opposite of what you have said holds equally true for them. not an elegant solution.

Martin,

I understand and am not putting anyone down who's not happy as being squarely in the wrong or VSL squarely in the right. One could argue that the VSL original agreement has been finessed quite a bit. My point is just that there is cost saving potential (time and quality improvements) and even greater creative potential, so I'm not shocked that it's going to cost me. Someone's has to pay for this new creature and it's going to be us. Could VSL knock a little off more off our bottom line? Maybe that's the core issue I don't know.

I found your post to be reasoned and legitimate and would prefer the outcome you desire but I'm not surprised by business needs of VSL. It seems I'm always paying for things that don't mean a lot to me so at least in this case I will enjoy myself after initial wincing.

I just got off a really enjoyable call with a forum member here. In passing he referred to something I wrote in this thread as being a threat. I didn’t take his comment as being critical at all, but it got me thinking about the wonderful opportunities we have to share ideas across international boundaries. Now our native language is both English but still there was something that didn’t quite translate between what I intended to say and what I said. So I can’t imagine how it might have been interpreted across language barriers as we all work to understand each other. So for the record:

Although I have been critical of VSL and don’t agree with their approach to the SC, I told my friend that I thought the VIs would suit his needs better than the pro edition even where the reverse is true for me. My reference to 24-bit samples as being an unfulfilled contractual obligation was not meant to be a threat in any way. It is a harsh statement because unimpassioned analysis makes it that way: pro edition users have been promised 24-bit samples as a part of their purchase but have not received them. The fact is I don’t want them, and it would be incorrect to read my statement as having any interest in holding VSL responsible legally. Personally, I think VSL has a history of making promises it can’t keep only to find out later why (also a harsh statement). And while there might be a better way to go about this, at no point in time have I ever thought they were unethical. If anything, Herb has made sure that if they blow it, they make it right which to me is a sign of mature ethical thinking. I’m still disturbed that the SC leaves users who can’t or won’t upgrade hanging, but I’d like to think that VSL still recognizes their responsibility to these people and their potential for future VSL income. In the meantime, I’ll probably buy a couple of non-orchestral things like saxophones II and maybe a couple horizon things, and wait to see what they do next. This is a market that kills businesses that sit on their hands and my guess is we haven’t heard the last from VSL. For those who read my comments, please accept that they were meant to be constructive in adding clarity in crisis, and my ironic apology for not being clearer.

Hello all - I started this thread because I believed VSL would at least own up to the "tweaking" of their VIP program promise. In good faith, like many others I thought that my investment was well made. What I have is good - but I have decided upon reflection after further comments from the moderator and owner to not purchase any further products from VSL. No matter how they try and re-word the VIP program - it states that we will never have to pay twice for ANY sample. It's in black and white. I no longer care if it's 24bit - I no longer care about the money VSL spent developing the VI tool. If a company makes a statement - like within 30days you can have your money back - no questions asked - and then says, "well what we actually meant by that was..." then people will no longer buy from them. CM, Herb - you've lost a customer - and if you were politicians, you'd know what that really meant.

There are so many great sample librarys out there, it is simply unreal, but VSL still holds true, after doing alot of listening.

@simongentry said:

CM, Herb - you've lost a customer - and if you were politicians, you'd know what that really meant.

So they lose a customer - and what have you gained?
VI is clearly going to be a superior product to anything they (or anyone else, for all I know) have ever produced. You talk about politics, but you obvioiusly don't know the first thing about business. I can't help but think the loss in the long run is yours; if they are about to lose a few customers now, that is tragic, but with VI it stands to reason that they are more likely to attract many new customers (here's one, to start with) to more than make up for the loss of a few. I'm amazed and impressed by the response from the VSL team and the way they are accepting the feedback from their customers - even before the product is released! - how many companies have you dealt with that offer this kind of instant service and communication? I think you're making a big mistake to walk a way now.

This discussion is somewhat similar to the reaction to the new $8,500 Korg Oasys synth. Many loyal Korg customers were very angry about the pricing of the new synth, in that it was so expensive and loyal Korg customers had already invested so much in Korg products. However, the Oasys is far beyond any other synth available (I own one) and, although the market for it will be more limited than for other Korg synths, its pricing is worth it (IMO)

I think that same will likely prove to be true for the SC VI. There will be nothing available to compare to what it can do.

The VIP pricing program is based on the philosophy of not having to pay for the same samples twice. It seems to me that there is nothing in the new expanded SC that was in previous VSL offerings (24 bit vs 16 bit, VI with incredible intelligence built in, new articulations). Previous VSL customers can buy the expanded SC at a considerable savings compared to new customers. Yes, it is still expensive; yes many will not be able to afford it all at once (or at all), but I don't know what more VSL customers expect.

The new SC is not an incremental upgrade to existing technology. It appears to be a state-of-the-art application of sample-based technology with absolutely no compromise made in its design. The R&D investment for these products must have been tremendous. The work to develop this had to have been a labor of love for the VSL team, but that notwithstanding, they are still entitled to receive remuneration for that effort.

Even if you can't afford the SC (I am in that group, at least for now), how lucky the music world is to have a group of people with the passion and the ability to create a product like this.