@William said:

I feel this is the single most important thing - musically - that VSL can do. The only weakness it has in my opinion, in a purely musical sense (not technically), is the fact that the ensemble violins, in legato, alternate between a very dry, almost senza vibrato p, and a very loud f or portamento. And so there is NO lyrical legato for emotional, espressivo but NOT extremely loud violin lines.

If this current approach is merely expanded to huge, massive numbers, I don't think this would help that much. Most people don't need gigantically massive violin sections, but rather richer-sounding normal sections. "Romantic Strings" - that was the name talked about before, and it indicates the quality that is currently not really represented by any sample library.

Specifically, in legato, if the middle dynamic could be recorded - an mp, that was exactly like the espressivo quality of the regular horns and the Epic Horns in their mp legato - THIS WOULD BE TREMENDOUS! In other words, a very fluid, lyrical, delicate expressive legato. Not a dry, merely "connect-the-notes" type such as exists now in the p, but one in which you hear the beautiful singing note transitions with tiny audible differences in timing between the individual players that make for a lyrical legato string line. This would be not a portamento exactly, but halfway between portamento and legato.

Anything that enhanced this lyrical, espressivo side of string playing would be MORE USED THAN ANY OTHER SINGLE FEATURE OF THE LIBRARY.

Just another vote of support for William's angle on this - especially the legato mp or mf need. I also support calls for better high-register material. (Better = not brittle, shrill, close).

- Paul Smith

@PaulR said:

Hmmm - I don't know Herb, but you just might want to take more than 3 days in session. This library could be a real winner and has been talked about for quite some time now.

Alex - definitely be available as a single purchase I would guess.

I agree PaulR,

'Epic Violins' should not be rushed, or squeezed in a busy recording schedule, or viewed as a bonus material, they are IMHO one of the key, and currently missing components of the VSL Librarary. Lots of care, and attention to detail should be put into producing them, even if they require a week, or more.

I will order them today, if they existed !


Herb - getting a feeling for how important THIS effort would be. [:D]

Alex - Epic Horns IMHO sounds as good as it does for two reasons - size of sections AND the mics are not sitting right on top of the instruments (they are given some breathing room - as well as the 'room' is heard in them).

Could be wrong - mostly am [[;)]]

Rob

@Rob Elliott said:

Alex - Epic Horns IMHO sounds as good as it does for two reasons - size of sections AND the mics are not sitting right on top of the instruments (they are given some breathing room - as well as the 'room' is heard in them)

right, in my opinion it is one of the best recording method to not choose special mics and put it in special angles with this and that and bla, mostly there is a cool and natural sound with just two neumann in xy oder ortf micing.

anyone i know that the vsl guys do a pretty cool job on all recordings but sometimes a little more breathing room like you mentioned would be the some cream on top of the already tasty cake [:)]

Alex,

I think Epic horns (perhaps we have Thomas to thank) broke 'new ground' for an already outstanding developer. Subsequent to this developement we will all hear even better libraries from our VSL team. I am confident of it.

They knew this long before the incredible sales. Imagine the first 'review' of this library - the 'sound' they produce IMHO is really a paradigm shift - the next level.

A director said to me on a recent project - that was the best french horn section he had ever heard - complimented my 'conducting' of it. All I said was thank you. [:D]

(not really a fib - I did have to 'conduct' my virtual players [:P] )


Rob

I also like this plan!

I had pretty much decided not to buy the new VI, even though I desperately covet it, because I just bought the Pro Edition and Performance Set a month ago (along with two new computers, GS3, Sonar5, Sibelius 4, some outboard stuff, etc., you all get the idea). I still have to build a vocal booth, buy mikes an pre amps and all that.

This deal would almost certainly change my mind!

My only question regarding this is, once you upgrade to VI, how often will you really use this new material in the old way?

I still like the offer but the fact remains that, at the end of the day, VI seems to be an entirely new step in sample based orchestra use that leaves everything else, including the "old" VSL, in the dust. So, with this offer we'll get wonderful new string material but will we really use it?

Having said all that, my votes for the new material include:

1. What William said.

2. HARMONICS!!! - straight, tremolo and glissando (looped and/not).

3. Better sound in the high registers (I agree with others they are currently unusable)

4. Larger section.

5. Warm, Romantic sound.

6. Jete, Spiccato, Pizzicato Quasi Guitarra, Pizzicato Tremolo

7. Celli would be nice but better to take the time to do the violins right than to add more instruments not done as well.

More than anything I wish to applaud Herb and company for really trying to think of a way to consider the needs and feelings of VSL users. It appears that you are really trying to find a way to make this work out well for all concerned. Kudos to you and to the VSL company!

Be Well,

Poppa

PS: Based on what everyone else has said, I'm ordering the Epic Horns RIGHT NOW!!! [:D]

@PoppaJOL said:

I also like this plan!

I had pretty much decided not to buy the new VI, even though I desperately covet it, because I just bought the Pro Edition and Performance Set a month ago (along with two new computers, GS3, Sonar5, Sibelius 4, some outboard stuff, etc., you all get the idea). I still have to build a vocal booth, buy mikes an pre amps and all that.

This deal would almost certainly change my mind!

My only question regarding this is, once you upgrade to VI, how often will you really use this new material in the old way?

I still like the offer but the fact remains that, at the end of the day, VI seems to be an entirely new step in sample based orchestra use that leaves everything else, including the "old" VSL, in the dust. So, with this offer we'll get wonderful new string material but will we really use it?

Having said all that, my votes for the new material include:

1. What William said.

2. HARMONICS!!! - straight, tremolo and glissando (looped and/not).

3. Better sound in the high registers (I agree with others they are currently unusable)

4. Larger section.

5. Warm, Romantic sound.

6. Jete, Spiccato, Pizzicato Quasi Guitarra, Pizzicato Tremolo

7. Celli would be nice but better to take the time to do the violins right than to add more instruments not done as well.

More than anything I wish to applaud Herb and company for really trying to think of a way to consider the needs and feelings of VSL users. It appears that you are really trying to find a way to make this work out well for all concerned. Kudos to you and to the VSL company!

Be Well,

Poppa

Why dont you add a bit more to record. I mean we have three whole days [:D][;)]

Christian:

I had some more ideas but I thought I'd be conservative [:D]

Be well,

Poppa

@PoppaJOL said:

PS: Based on what everyone else has said, I'm ordering the Epic Horns RIGHT NOW!!! [:D]

I guarantee you won't be disappointed.

Just for info:

to produce a performance interval instrument with one dynamic layer would take the major part of the six sessions. some small add ons are possible.
It's not possible to produce two performance intervall sets in this time.

We have to decide: focus on this performance thing, or more variations of "standard" samples

best
Herb

I would love to hear a meaty violin that's sort of thick & resonant, but not tooooo loud or "epic" (read: screechy) sounding.

Also, I wanted to echo an idea that I had a while back -- not specific to violins, but to an entire string section. I would love to hear a sample (in each key) of an entire string section playing a chord flautando, or a light tremolo -- a nice shimmer effect.

Kerry

Ok, too bad - but expected.

Tough choice. I say we should focus on sustains in multiple velocities. For these warm, romantic strings we would really need to be able to do crossfaded dynamics.

Then if there was more time we could have other common articulations like short notes.

Stuff like pizz should be of the lowest priority IMHO.

We REALLY need those lush romantic strings.

I'll add the request for some effects as well, with the above.
[:D] ( I know that the request is getting old but...)

Chris

Herb and others

I know it's perhaps not my place to speak my view in this matter, but I seriously think it would be a big mistake if VSL didn't plan this particular lib very carefully and develop it into a complete library in the long run, because Violins like these are exactly what lots of people have been wishing for from VSL for quite some time now.

As someone already pointed out, the current Violin section is considered by many to be the major remaining "chink in the VSL armor" and I think it would be very unfortunate if VSL did not do their very best to cove that gap properly.

I think it's pretty safe to say that if these Epic Strings turn out good (which I'm confident they would), then chances are it will be a MAJOR bestseller for VSL...so I hope Herb will at least consider the possibility of this being more than just a small "bonus" patch (if that was the initial intention).

Sure, let the people have their bonus patch soon (a very generous offer btw), but please make into a complete Horizon lib and/or VI instrument eventually (even if by small steps at a time).

In short, whatever you do...please don't underestimate the importance this instrument will have for VSL customers (current and future alike).

R

Another vote for lovely, tender, tear-in-the-eye romantic strings played mf and mp.

Do whatever it takes to avoid an overly harsh, strident, nasal or pinched quality.

This involves the playing style, the actual instruments used, the number of players, the recording techniques and the post processing.

It can't be easy to achieve this, or we'd have half a dozen libraries already with this sound. But I do believe it's possible to get a lot closer to the ideal that everyone here craves.

Sign me up.

Best,
Jay

If i was eligible to vote, i'd be with Jay.
Lush romantic strings mp to mf.

Regards,

Alex.

Thinking some more about it-- I think 2 dynamic levels of performance instruments would be necessary (or at least very desirable) to create the expression necessary for the romantic sound. Please consider more sessions devoted to this concept. Even if all the results are not "free."

--Jay

Herb,

I have the complete orchestral package 1st edition (and am starting in on the VI instruments right away.) Does this String offer apply to me in any way? Happy to pay any difference.

Regarding suggestions I agree with William's mp-mf perf-leg idea and your large section idea - both are badly needed

I am also not eligible for this offer, but if the 'romantic' sound that is being discussed here is achieved for the violins, I hope that it will be reproduced for the rest of the sections. This always was yet another strength of VSL - no such thing as a 'less important' instrument or section. [H]

(some of the other libraries out there have some fine violins, but the lower strings are real dogs sound wise, and skimpy on the articulations...)

Just my two cents:

Important for realistic productions would also be having sections that are smaller as well. that's where I agree to the idea of a first and 2nd violin section. Cause doubling voices should not result in having 22 players sounding. It should rather be f.ex. 5 and 6 players making the sound of 11 players or so.
i cannot describe the sound I would wish to get than referring to the sounds of the "lyrical vibrato strings" of EWQL. That sound is missing!¨To have that articulation/playing style together with smooth legatos (such as in the chamber strings) and dynamic blending (crossfades) would be a good choice to start with I guess.

I think Herb's offer is a real chance to get where pro's want to be soundwise!

@JBacal said:

Please consider more sessions devoted to this concept. Even if all the results are not "free."

Oh, yeah...in case my previous post was not clear about this: Of course I also meant that a possible complete future Epic Violins instrument wouldn't be free, but just this first "bonus" material for some select users.

Like I said before, I'm confident many would pay full price for a nice complete Epic Violins instrument.

R