Good point Tom. The higher registers I AVOID (rather not have them to there to call attention to themselves - ofter use horns, flutes, clarinets if possible - WOULD REALLY like soaring strings though.)

"Pinched and nasally" is how I would describe ALL string upper range libraries. Add to that 'Metalic' and void of warmth. IMHO.

I know VSL has a purist mentality (which in most cases has served you well), but perhaps with Epic Strings (ES), there should be some post processing (filters, eq, - whatever it takes to get this sound.)


Rob

@William said:

Yes, I am not against the bigger size at all, just wanted to emphasize that performance aspect. Excellent point by Rob Elliot about the Epic horns warmth.

Also, Tom bringing up John Barry - absolutely. He is THE master of "Epic Strings." That is funny, since I was just listening to "Walkabout" which has the most soaring violin melody ever done for film music, and "Lion in Winter." Not to mention "Somewhere in Time" not to mention... etc., etc. ,etc. If these strings were specifcally for playing John Barry music - that would nail it.

William - dances with wolves is also not half bad example of what a warm soaring string section SHOULD sound like.


Herb - you nail this one and you will carve out a niche noone currently owns!!!


Rob

hehe.. dances with wolves was the exact soundtrack I had in mind when I mentioned John Barry [:)]

Yes - I thought I could rely on you Bill.

The parallel with Epic Horns - the best horn library out there - is a very good one.

Suddenly John Barry gets the spotlight. Wow!

[:D]

I think the suggestion about using the current pro edition string section as the "2nd" violin would be great. The Larger Epic 1st violin section that you are going to produce does not need all the articulations like the original Strings and chamber strings and solo. It would be nice though if time would allow.....

-Ben

Herb,
great idea ! I'd say ...do your thing....
just keep "warmth" in mind...

Awesome ! Looking forward to it.

thanks,

Thor

one question:

would it also be possible to purchase these epic strings as a non-pro edition user?

the only wish i would have for the strings would a "not-so-close"-recording. on the opus (and vsl of course) strings i sometimes have the feeling that the bow noise and the closeness is sometimes a little bit too much.

it would be really cool to have at least a little bit room (not really room or a hall) but just a little more room on the strings than now.

i sometimes have the feeling when listening to the strings that they are not just dry (what i of course love) but the players stand like 3 mm in front of me and for my ears this doesn't sound very real.

kinda like the same concept which was used on epic horns for example.

Hi Herb,

Yes ! This is a wonderful [I] I think we are all in need for additional strings, 'Epic Violins' will be a great addition, maybe'Epic Celli' will follow them... [[;)]]

'Epic Horns' is one of the most popular Horizon Series Titles. So, 'Epic Violins' will most likely be very, very popular.

I don't own the Pro Edition Strings, but own some of the Horizon series titles, I will instantly buy "Epic Violins", this is a no brainer for me, highly needed !

I am guessing that 'Epic Violins' would be a seperate Vienna Instrument package, that I could purchase independent of the Strings I , Strings II,...etc. , any feedback on this detail ?

Thanks.

Hmmm - I don't know Herb, but you just might want to take more than 3 days in session. This library could be a real winner and has been talked about for quite some time now.

Alex - definitely be available as a single purchase I would guess.

I think the suggestion about using the current pro edition string section as the "2nd" violin would be great. The Larger Epic 1st violin section that you are going to produce does not need all the articulations like the original Strings and chamber strings and solo. It would be nice though if time would allow.....

-Ben

@PaulR said:

Hmmm - I don't know Herb, but you just might want to take more than 3 days in session. This library could be a real winner and has been talked about for quite some time now.

Alex - definitely be available as a single purchase I would guess.

I agree PaulR,

'Epic Violins' should not be rushed, or squeezed in a busy recording schedule, or viewed as a bonus material, they are IMHO one of the key, and currently missing components of the VSL Librarary. Lots of care, and attention to detail should be put into producing them, even if they require a week, or more.

I will order them today, if they existed !

@William said:

I feel this is the single most important thing - musically - that VSL can do. The only weakness it has in my opinion, in a purely musical sense (not technically), is the fact that the ensemble violins, in legato, alternate between a very dry, almost senza vibrato p, and a very loud f or portamento. And so there is NO lyrical legato for emotional, espressivo but NOT extremely loud violin lines.

If this current approach is merely expanded to huge, massive numbers, I don't think this would help that much. Most people don't need gigantically massive violin sections, but rather richer-sounding normal sections. "Romantic Strings" - that was the name talked about before, and it indicates the quality that is currently not really represented by any sample library.

Specifically, in legato, if the middle dynamic could be recorded - an mp, that was exactly like the espressivo quality of the regular horns and the Epic Horns in their mp legato - THIS WOULD BE TREMENDOUS! In other words, a very fluid, lyrical, delicate expressive legato. Not a dry, merely "connect-the-notes" type such as exists now in the p, but one in which you hear the beautiful singing note transitions with tiny audible differences in timing between the individual players that make for a lyrical legato string line. This would be not a portamento exactly, but halfway between portamento and legato.

Anything that enhanced this lyrical, espressivo side of string playing would be MORE USED THAN ANY OTHER SINGLE FEATURE OF THE LIBRARY.

Just another vote of support for William's angle on this - especially the legato mp or mf need. I also support calls for better high-register material. (Better = not brittle, shrill, close).

- Paul Smith

@PaulR said:

Hmmm - I don't know Herb, but you just might want to take more than 3 days in session. This library could be a real winner and has been talked about for quite some time now.

Alex - definitely be available as a single purchase I would guess.

I agree PaulR,

'Epic Violins' should not be rushed, or squeezed in a busy recording schedule, or viewed as a bonus material, they are IMHO one of the key, and currently missing components of the VSL Librarary. Lots of care, and attention to detail should be put into producing them, even if they require a week, or more.

I will order them today, if they existed !


Herb - getting a feeling for how important THIS effort would be. [:D]

Alex - Epic Horns IMHO sounds as good as it does for two reasons - size of sections AND the mics are not sitting right on top of the instruments (they are given some breathing room - as well as the 'room' is heard in them).

Could be wrong - mostly am [[;)]]

Rob

@Rob Elliott said:

Alex - Epic Horns IMHO sounds as good as it does for two reasons - size of sections AND the mics are not sitting right on top of the instruments (they are given some breathing room - as well as the 'room' is heard in them)

right, in my opinion it is one of the best recording method to not choose special mics and put it in special angles with this and that and bla, mostly there is a cool and natural sound with just two neumann in xy oder ortf micing.

anyone i know that the vsl guys do a pretty cool job on all recordings but sometimes a little more breathing room like you mentioned would be the some cream on top of the already tasty cake [:)]

Alex,

I think Epic horns (perhaps we have Thomas to thank) broke 'new ground' for an already outstanding developer. Subsequent to this developement we will all hear even better libraries from our VSL team. I am confident of it.

They knew this long before the incredible sales. Imagine the first 'review' of this library - the 'sound' they produce IMHO is really a paradigm shift - the next level.

A director said to me on a recent project - that was the best french horn section he had ever heard - complimented my 'conducting' of it. All I said was thank you. [:D]

(not really a fib - I did have to 'conduct' my virtual players [:P] )


Rob

I also like this plan!

I had pretty much decided not to buy the new VI, even though I desperately covet it, because I just bought the Pro Edition and Performance Set a month ago (along with two new computers, GS3, Sonar5, Sibelius 4, some outboard stuff, etc., you all get the idea). I still have to build a vocal booth, buy mikes an pre amps and all that.

This deal would almost certainly change my mind!

My only question regarding this is, once you upgrade to VI, how often will you really use this new material in the old way?

I still like the offer but the fact remains that, at the end of the day, VI seems to be an entirely new step in sample based orchestra use that leaves everything else, including the "old" VSL, in the dust. So, with this offer we'll get wonderful new string material but will we really use it?

Having said all that, my votes for the new material include:

1. What William said.

2. HARMONICS!!! - straight, tremolo and glissando (looped and/not).

3. Better sound in the high registers (I agree with others they are currently unusable)

4. Larger section.

5. Warm, Romantic sound.

6. Jete, Spiccato, Pizzicato Quasi Guitarra, Pizzicato Tremolo

7. Celli would be nice but better to take the time to do the violins right than to add more instruments not done as well.

More than anything I wish to applaud Herb and company for really trying to think of a way to consider the needs and feelings of VSL users. It appears that you are really trying to find a way to make this work out well for all concerned. Kudos to you and to the VSL company!

Be Well,

Poppa

PS: Based on what everyone else has said, I'm ordering the Epic Horns RIGHT NOW!!! [:D]

@PoppaJOL said:

I also like this plan!

I had pretty much decided not to buy the new VI, even though I desperately covet it, because I just bought the Pro Edition and Performance Set a month ago (along with two new computers, GS3, Sonar5, Sibelius 4, some outboard stuff, etc., you all get the idea). I still have to build a vocal booth, buy mikes an pre amps and all that.

This deal would almost certainly change my mind!

My only question regarding this is, once you upgrade to VI, how often will you really use this new material in the old way?

I still like the offer but the fact remains that, at the end of the day, VI seems to be an entirely new step in sample based orchestra use that leaves everything else, including the "old" VSL, in the dust. So, with this offer we'll get wonderful new string material but will we really use it?

Having said all that, my votes for the new material include:

1. What William said.

2. HARMONICS!!! - straight, tremolo and glissando (looped and/not).

3. Better sound in the high registers (I agree with others they are currently unusable)

4. Larger section.

5. Warm, Romantic sound.

6. Jete, Spiccato, Pizzicato Quasi Guitarra, Pizzicato Tremolo

7. Celli would be nice but better to take the time to do the violins right than to add more instruments not done as well.

More than anything I wish to applaud Herb and company for really trying to think of a way to consider the needs and feelings of VSL users. It appears that you are really trying to find a way to make this work out well for all concerned. Kudos to you and to the VSL company!

Be Well,

Poppa

Why dont you add a bit more to record. I mean we have three whole days [:D][;)]

Christian:

I had some more ideas but I thought I'd be conservative [:D]

Be well,

Poppa

@PoppaJOL said:

PS: Based on what everyone else has said, I'm ordering the Epic Horns RIGHT NOW!!! [:D]

I guarantee you won't be disappointed.

Just for info:

to produce a performance interval instrument with one dynamic layer would take the major part of the six sessions. some small add ons are possible.
It's not possible to produce two performance intervall sets in this time.

We have to decide: focus on this performance thing, or more variations of "standard" samples

best
Herb