I'm going to be a bit provocative here.

I find interesting that some people don't think there is a lack of warmth with the strings, and yet, here they are on this thread saying: "I want a warm, expressive, romantic sound". The way I see it, romantic is synonymous, if not damn close to warmth! If your happy and content with the warmth you already have, don't make a point of it saying that you want that!

@Rob Elliott said:

Does anyone have a few mp3 sample strings recordings that is capturing this sound we are all looking for? Might be a 'picture worth a 1000 words.) [:D]


Rob

The Beyondness of Things by John Barry or Vertigo by Bernard Herrmann may be a good place to start.

@Guy said:

I'm going to be a bit provocative here.

I find interesting that some people don't think there is a lack of warmth with the strings, and yet, here they are on this thread saying: "I want a warm, expressive, romantic sound". The way I see it, romantic is synonymous, if not damn close to warmth! If your happy and content with the warmth you already have, don't make a point of it saying that you want that!

Hmm.. that is provocative. [[;)]]
I would argue though that the description 'warmth', generically used, is insufficient of itself to define the 'romantic' sound. You can have warm strings without evoking anything remotely 'romantic'. A more careful definition is needed, I feel... Generally there is a fluidity in the phrasing that goes a long way to making the sound, a sense of 'movement' even in individual notes... On the whole it should have a light and airy touch, though ideally there would also be samples that would allow one to 'dig in' more.

More thoughts?

JC5,

That is a bunch of trash!!!!

Just kidding! :- ) I had you there, hey?

Ok, fair enough.

What do you think of my idea of recording intervals of 2 notes in the John Barry feel?

@Another User said:

Ok, fair enough.

What do you think of my idea of recording intervals of 2 notes in the John Barry feel?

Actually I think that is a great idea!
The existing portamento patches are wonderful, but are only at the one speed. Having long and luscious interval/portamento recordings with a good amount of vibrato would add a very valuable expressive (and melodic)tool - one which I would use very often.
Barry is a good example. Perhaps 'molto espressivo' versions could also be done to cover that more angst ridden sound as well - along the lines of say, for example, the opening of the last movement of Mahler's 9th symphony. Lots of other examples throughout Mahler, or Wagner (Tristan, etc.), and countless others..


Hmm.. just to bring up more ideas and examples, it might also be worth looking at a couple of patches from the old Miroslav strings collection - namely the 'violins soft', and 'violins long detache'. These are perhaps the most overtly 'romantic' sounding patches ever captured in samples so far - limited by the technology of the era (in sample years, they are practically historic! [:P] ), but imagine that kind of tone translated to modern methods and with VSL's thoroughness (and legato techniques!)..

This also brings me back to my theme about neglecting the other sections - these two patches are possibly the best ones in the Miroslav set, and they are only available for the violins... you could not mirror that sound in the other sections, and that was/is extremely frustrating... [8o|]

Hence Horizon Romantic Strings, with multiple luscious portamento/interval performance patches... [[[;)]]]

As far as patches for this project. I've narrowed it down to 3 that I'd love to have...Everything else would be superfulous.... If you could give me what you did with the English horn and small clarinet in Eb that came with the French oboe package...That would be VERY useful to me.

1. SINGLE-NOTES
2. PERF-LEGATO

And have the ability to cross fade p - f on each of these pathes, I'd be a happy camper. I own all of your samples except the Vienna Harps.
I have faith that you'll get it right.

-Ben

@Another User said:

Ok, fair enough.

What do you think of my idea of recording intervals of 2 notes in the John Barry feel?

Actually I think that is a great idea!
The existing portamento patches are wonderful, but are only at the one speed. Having long and luscious interval/portamento recordings with a good amount of vibrato would add a very valuable expressive (and melodic)tool - one which I would use very often.
Barry is a good example. Perhaps 'molto espressivo' versions could also be done to cover that more angst ridden sound as well - along the lines of say, for example, the opening of the last movement of Mahler's 9th symphony. Lots of other examples throughout Mahler, or Wagner (Tristan, etc.), and countless others..


Hmm.. just to bring up more ideas and examples, it might also be worth looking at a couple of patches from the old Miroslav strings collection - namely the 'violins soft', and 'violins long detache'. These are perhaps the most overtly 'romantic' sounding patches ever captured in samples so far - limited by the technology of the era (in sample years, they are practically historic! [:P] ), but imagine that kind of tone translated to modern methods and with VSL's thoroughness (and legato techniques!)..

This also brings me back to my theme about neglecting the other sections - these two patches are possibly the best ones in the Miroslav set, and they are only available for the violins... you could not mirror that sound in the other sections, and that was/is extremely frustrating... [8o|]

Hence Horizon Romantic Strings, with multiple luscious portamento/interval performance patches... [[[;)]]]


Can you post a quick example of these samples for review (I don't have that library.)


Rob

@Rob Elliott said:

Can you post a quick example of these samples for review (I don't have that library.)


Rob

Yes, I could make a quick little mp3 demo of just those sounds later today - but I don't have anywhere convenient to host the file...
(my official website is still in early stages of development... *sigh*.. so much work to do... [[;)]] )

i have a few megs to spare, can you attach it in an email to me?

I'll send you my email address.

Hey Guys,
Before asking for a special articulation, don't you want to KNOW what's already inside the Orchestral Strings I & II ?

Herb, thanks for planing the Bass flute "-))

Why did it took so long ?

Do you consider it as rare as the heckelphone (tenor oboe), contrabass clarinet, or the euphonium ?
I may be wrong but in my mind it's the same as the bass clarinet and the Contra Bassoon. Much much more often used than the Bass Trumpet, the Contrabass Trombone, the Contrabass Tuba.
Furthermore in the movie music it's very common, not an just an antiquity like those [below below below 8va x 3 intruments ] [[;)]]

Personally I know much more scores which are asking for Heckelphone than for bass flute.

A "new content overview" for the orchestral strings I & II and all other collections you can find in the Product Infos in the Products & Shop area.

best
Herb

Thanks Herb
Many nice updates !

Is there a p or pp portamento legato performance ?

p/pp portamento only for chamber and solo strings

best
Herb

@herb said:

p/pp portamento only for chamber and solo strings

best
Herb

Wonderful news that our solo violin will now be able to do portamento at soft levels!

Thanks Herb!
Tom

I have the pro edition but if I wait around june 2006 to buy the orchestral string collection, will I have the Epic Violin ?

Thanks

So at what point will this be available to pro users? After you purchase any module of the symphonic cube? Also I have the pro cube only, not the performance set. Will this be still available?

@SyQuEsT said:

I have the pro edition but if I wait around june 2006 to buy the orchestral string collection, will I have the Epic Violin ?

Thanks

So ? [[;)]]

@herb said:

bass flute, heckelphone (tenor oboe), contrabass clarinet, euphonium, and some more instruments are already in production
they should be releasable 2nd quarter 2006
so no mission necessary any more

best
Herb

I would like, if I may, to put in a word for two more WW instruments: Oboe d'amore, Basset horn?These surely have at least equal claim to be included in the VSL orchestra as those listed above (which I am also glad to see included)

Just wanted to re-emphasize that I would really like a mp legato string patch with a sweet romantic vibrato. The current p legato patch is almost non-vibrato. (*sorry- typed non-legato before which was a mistake)

The term "epic" strings makes me a touch nervous because I worry that simply recording a larger number of players will not yield the sound that many of us are searching for. In fact, I'd prefer to actually be able to pick out a few individual instruments here and there as one can usually do in a choir of voices. William mentioned that the current strings sections can sometimes get razor thin in a mix. I think this is partially because of a kind of monolithic accuracy and uniformity to the performances in the samples. Ironically, I think that if there was a way to capture more of individuality the players into the samples then perhaps sections might actually sound fuller and larger even if the number of players is not actually increased.

Thoughts?

Best,
Jay

Jay,
As a former orchestral player, i oftem found the live strings version of 'A440' to be quite thick, hence the lush sound. I think VSL haven't neccessarily been too accurate, but the section tuning is very precise, and it's my view that the prception of thin strings comes from this. My tiny collection i use whilst travelling was recorded years ago by friends and has a 'thicker' sound. But that's 4 violins quadrupled in a mix, so the odd wide tuning sits out a little. I would rather a precise tuning method, then be able to manipulate it from there, so i'm kind of in VSL's camp here. I have a question at this point, and you're certainly the fellow to ask. Would the sound improve in 'width' if you were to record the current section strings by 4, detuning, and varying expression for each, then pulling the lot together, with an adjustment in dynamics for the increased number of players?

I mean it doesn't really matter that much if you're using '56' sampled players if the end result sounds like a normal string section, full and complete, does it?
Maybe we're thinking in a related orchestral way about this, instead of concentrating purely on the validity of the sound, and almost ignoring how we put it together. For example, i often 'ghost' a flute with the strings if i want the sound a little brighter. That's not a notated flute, merely a sound enhancer. And if i want a slighty more fluid sound, i 'ghost' a clarinet, un notated the same. almost at zero in volume, just a whisper really.

I'd be interested in hearing something like the quadrupled section, just to establish some sort of benchmark of how much is too much.

Regards,

Alex.