As the now registered (and pleased as punch) owner of the Pro-Ed COP I feel I can constructively contribute to this discussion.

It's clear we will never agree on this string thing and feelings are running too high. people are only going to be upset.

So let's ditch the string thing and go straight for that missing Euphonium. Hey you've got Ian Bousfield principle trombone of the VSO on your doorstep who plays a mean euphonium and was bought up in the Black Dyke Mills Band. One man, three days - it's doable and this way everyone (excluding me) is equally upset.

You know it makes sense [:D]

bass flute, heckelphone (tenor oboe), contrabass clarinet, euphonium, and some more instruments are already in production
they should be releasable 2nd quarter 2006
so no mission necessary any more

best
Herb

@herb said:

...Euphonium, and some more instruments are already in production
they should be releasable 2nd quarter 2006
so no mission necessary any more

best
Herb

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thanks Herb

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"...The session conductor in this case will really be put to work - just as much effort as recording an actual expressive performance, simple beat counting will not do!
And an actual well planned score would have to be written." - jc5



I cringed at this some, because it really puts down the previous recordings, which are incredibly complex and difficult to do and pulled off brilliantly within limited time periods. Though I don't think JC5 meant to be offensive.

Dave Tuba King - why are your faces sad? I thought you'd be happy. Or are they tears of joy?

Tears of joy. I've got thru a whole box of Kleanex since Herb's announcement.

I wouldn't of mind having very expressiveintervals of 2 notes in a medium slow time. VSL would have to do all the intervals up and down starting on every note. From that you could build slow expressive melodies between several tracks, even though you'd be somehow limited, but still.

@jc5 said:

...The session conductor in this case will really be put to work - just as much effort as recording an actual expressive performance, simple beat counting will not do!
And an actual well planned score would have to be written.

because you have obviously no idea what we are doing in the silent stage, i'm not offended. i thought, you guy's will discuss about the patches you prefer to use, which is the most useful articulation for you and so on, this would be interesting for us to know, to support our decision, which patches our pro-edition owners will get. don't take care how much i'm able to work within three day's, just tell us your patch wishlist.
regards, michael hula

I assure you, in no way did I mean to offend! [:O]ops: [:)]
In what I wrote I was merely theorizing on a possible way of how to elicite the sort of performance that is being discussed - said method being time consuming is probably not even relatable to the current 3 day session (the results of which I'm not even in line to receive anyhow, not being a Pro Ed owner! [:P] )

I obviously don't know how the VSL team actually works in the rather unique setup of the Silent Stage, I can only theorize based on what I do know of how others have run sampling sessions (and from my own, admitedly rudimentary and meagre, sampling experiences).

My statement about the conducting was not a criticism of the existing work (which I bought, and couldn't live without now!) so much as my feeling that capturing such a specific (and context driven) musical 'mood' consistently across all the recordings would be more of a challenge - you will obviously know what the truth of this is or isn't more than any of us. [[;)]]

@William said:

"...The session conductor in this case will really be put to work - just as much effort as recording an actual expressive performance, simple beat counting will not do!
And an actual well planned score would have to be written." - jc5



I cringed at this some, because it really puts down the previous recordings, which are incredibly complex and difficult to do and pulled off brilliantly within limited time periods. Though I don't think JC5 meant to be offensive.

It seems my statement has been taken the wrong way (ah, the miscommunications of the internet!)... [:O]ops:

I would hardly be the one to put down the previous recordings - if anyone had the time or inclination to go through my statements here and elsewhere in previous discussions, the will see the almost universal approval I heap on the VSL samples.. [:D]

I am not one of those who find the existing strings lacking in 'warmth' - to me they simply are the best. And consistently so down the sections - whereas others focus solely on getting decent violins, and everything else is... lets just say neglected! [8-)]

@jc5 said:

I am not one of those who find the existing strings lacking in 'warmth'

No, That's me. hehehe!

0000000 [6]
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000 [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[:D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[:D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[:D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[:D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[:D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
00 [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[:D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[:D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[:D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[:D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[:D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[:D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
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Does anyone have a few mp3 sample strings recordings that is capturing this sound we are all looking for? Might be a 'picture worth a 1000 words.) [:D]


Rob

@jc5 said:

I am not one of those who find the existing strings lacking in 'warmth'

No, That's me. hehehe!

0000000 [6]
000000 [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[:D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]] [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[:D]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
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There is your trouble maker, right there. [:D] [[[;)]]]

To me the VSL strings have just the right combination of richness and detail that allows one to work as freely as has been possible to date without actually employing a live group.. this makes them very 'multipurpose' if you will.

What we are talking about here (if I'm reading the group correctly, and I think I am) on the other hand is a sound that is actually rather 'mono-purpose' instead - a 'romantic strings' package would by its very nature be an addition to the standard strings, since it really wouldn't be appropriate outside of it's very specific context. Unless of course you write an overwhelming amount of gushingly romatic music [[[;)]]] - think Kreisler... a real Viennese (of all things!) musical sweet tooth.. [:D]

Rob is right, mp3 examples can only help in nailing down the sound.

Though the new 'zigane' performance legatos which we have not yet heard for the ensemble sections may well go some way to fulfilling this role... hmmm....

I'm going to be a bit provocative here.

I find interesting that some people don't think there is a lack of warmth with the strings, and yet, here they are on this thread saying: "I want a warm, expressive, romantic sound". The way I see it, romantic is synonymous, if not damn close to warmth! If your happy and content with the warmth you already have, don't make a point of it saying that you want that!

@Rob Elliott said:

Does anyone have a few mp3 sample strings recordings that is capturing this sound we are all looking for? Might be a 'picture worth a 1000 words.) [:D]


Rob

The Beyondness of Things by John Barry or Vertigo by Bernard Herrmann may be a good place to start.

@Guy said:

I'm going to be a bit provocative here.

I find interesting that some people don't think there is a lack of warmth with the strings, and yet, here they are on this thread saying: "I want a warm, expressive, romantic sound". The way I see it, romantic is synonymous, if not damn close to warmth! If your happy and content with the warmth you already have, don't make a point of it saying that you want that!

Hmm.. that is provocative. [[;)]]
I would argue though that the description 'warmth', generically used, is insufficient of itself to define the 'romantic' sound. You can have warm strings without evoking anything remotely 'romantic'. A more careful definition is needed, I feel... Generally there is a fluidity in the phrasing that goes a long way to making the sound, a sense of 'movement' even in individual notes... On the whole it should have a light and airy touch, though ideally there would also be samples that would allow one to 'dig in' more.

More thoughts?

JC5,

That is a bunch of trash!!!!

Just kidding! :- ) I had you there, hey?

Ok, fair enough.

What do you think of my idea of recording intervals of 2 notes in the John Barry feel?

@Another User said:

Ok, fair enough.

What do you think of my idea of recording intervals of 2 notes in the John Barry feel?

Actually I think that is a great idea!
The existing portamento patches are wonderful, but are only at the one speed. Having long and luscious interval/portamento recordings with a good amount of vibrato would add a very valuable expressive (and melodic)tool - one which I would use very often.
Barry is a good example. Perhaps 'molto espressivo' versions could also be done to cover that more angst ridden sound as well - along the lines of say, for example, the opening of the last movement of Mahler's 9th symphony. Lots of other examples throughout Mahler, or Wagner (Tristan, etc.), and countless others..


Hmm.. just to bring up more ideas and examples, it might also be worth looking at a couple of patches from the old Miroslav strings collection - namely the 'violins soft', and 'violins long detache'. These are perhaps the most overtly 'romantic' sounding patches ever captured in samples so far - limited by the technology of the era (in sample years, they are practically historic! [:P] ), but imagine that kind of tone translated to modern methods and with VSL's thoroughness (and legato techniques!)..

This also brings me back to my theme about neglecting the other sections - these two patches are possibly the best ones in the Miroslav set, and they are only available for the violins... you could not mirror that sound in the other sections, and that was/is extremely frustrating... [8o|]

Hence Horizon Romantic Strings, with multiple luscious portamento/interval performance patches... [[[;)]]]

As far as patches for this project. I've narrowed it down to 3 that I'd love to have...Everything else would be superfulous.... If you could give me what you did with the English horn and small clarinet in Eb that came with the French oboe package...That would be VERY useful to me.

1. SINGLE-NOTES
2. PERF-LEGATO

And have the ability to cross fade p - f on each of these pathes, I'd be a happy camper. I own all of your samples except the Vienna Harps.
I have faith that you'll get it right.

-Ben

@Another User said:

Ok, fair enough.

What do you think of my idea of recording intervals of 2 notes in the John Barry feel?

Actually I think that is a great idea!
The existing portamento patches are wonderful, but are only at the one speed. Having long and luscious interval/portamento recordings with a good amount of vibrato would add a very valuable expressive (and melodic)tool - one which I would use very often.
Barry is a good example. Perhaps 'molto espressivo' versions could also be done to cover that more angst ridden sound as well - along the lines of say, for example, the opening of the last movement of Mahler's 9th symphony. Lots of other examples throughout Mahler, or Wagner (Tristan, etc.), and countless others..


Hmm.. just to bring up more ideas and examples, it might also be worth looking at a couple of patches from the old Miroslav strings collection - namely the 'violins soft', and 'violins long detache'. These are perhaps the most overtly 'romantic' sounding patches ever captured in samples so far - limited by the technology of the era (in sample years, they are practically historic! [:P] ), but imagine that kind of tone translated to modern methods and with VSL's thoroughness (and legato techniques!)..

This also brings me back to my theme about neglecting the other sections - these two patches are possibly the best ones in the Miroslav set, and they are only available for the violins... you could not mirror that sound in the other sections, and that was/is extremely frustrating... [8o|]

Hence Horizon Romantic Strings, with multiple luscious portamento/interval performance patches... [[[;)]]]


Can you post a quick example of these samples for review (I don't have that library.)


Rob

@Rob Elliott said:

Can you post a quick example of these samples for review (I don't have that library.)


Rob

Yes, I could make a quick little mp3 demo of just those sounds later today - but I don't have anywhere convenient to host the file...
(my official website is still in early stages of development... *sigh*.. so much work to do... [[;)]] )

i have a few megs to spare, can you attach it in an email to me?

I'll send you my email address.