So the question becomes:

if the recording time is extremely limited, what is most crucial?

to me, the answer is the mp/mf violins legato. One that matches the mp/mf horns legato in expressivo, fluid, lyrical sound.

Of course a full-tilt Horizon Edition Romantic Strings is very desirable. (And yes, very expensive to do I know... [:'(] )

@William said:

So the question becomes:

if the recording time is extremely limited, what is most crucial?

to me, the answer is the mp/mf violins legato. One that matches the mp/mf horns legato in expressivo, fluid, lyrical sound.

Of course a full-tilt Horizon Edition Romantic Strings is very desirable. (And yes, very expensive to do I know... [:'(] )

And we're almost back to what I said on page 1 [[:|]]

DG

@William said:

So the question becomes:

if the recording time is extremely limited, what is most crucial?

to me, the answer is the mp/mf violins legato. One that matches the mp/mf horns legato in expressivo, fluid, lyrical sound.

Of course a full-tilt Horizon Edition Romantic Strings is very desirable. (And yes, very expensive to do I know... [:'(] )

And we're almost back to what I said on page 1 [[:|]]

DG


Exactly. My money is (and has been on VSL), but if someone else comes out with these 'Romantic Strings' - and really nails it on the head, I'd buy it on the first day of release. However, I go back to what I said many pages ago [8-)] - getting this sound must be exceedingly difficult. Proof is that NO ONE has it yet.

Went to the Mormon tabernacle and Orchestra concert last night and was painfully reminded how FAR we still have to go to get 'that romantic string sound' [:'(]

Rob

Well I think we've gone full circle with this now. Romantic strings, romantic strings and more romantic strings!

But I'm personally more sceptic of expecting a magical sound that will have this beautiful romantic effect. I think they could design the sound to be thicker, more vibrato etc but it's going to take much more than that to reach your objective of that romantic string sound you have in mind. I don't think those 2 words "romantic strings"should be tossed around loosely. The complexity of that romantic sound is NOT going to be solved in 3 days of recordings!

I'm still looking forward to having it in my library though.

@Guy said:

Well I think we've gone full circle with this now. Romantic strings, romantic strings and more romantic strings!

But I'm personally more sceptic of expecting a magical sound that will have this beautiful romantic effect. I think they could design the sound to be thicker, more vibrato etc but it's going to take much more than that to reach your objective of that romantic string sound you have in mind. I don't think those 2 words "romantic strings"should be tossed around loosely. The complexity of that romantic sound is NOT going to be solved in 3 days of recordings!

I'm still looking forward to having it in my library though.

Yes, saying it and doing it are two entirely different things - as has been said, if attaining that quality was something simple it would already have been done. I think the main problem with 'romatic strings' is that capturing that sound is so very dependent on the actual context of a performance. A static sampled note simply won't have that emotion all by itself...

I believe it can be done, but that it would take extensive well thought out sessions. Certainly it would make a great Horizon release - possibly the most popular one yet if it really succeeds in its aims!

@jc5 said:

I believe it can be done, but that it would take extensive well thought out sessions. Certainly it would make a great Horizon release - possibly the most popular one yet if it really succeeds in its aims!

Certainly I am not privy to the Epic Horns sales but if - 'when' VSL pulls this off - having 10 tens the sales as Epic HO is not unrealistic. PLUS without a true competitor this will be priced accordingly [:P]

(for the right product - I'll be happy to pay for it.)

Rob

@jc5 said:

I believe it can be done, but that it would take extensive well thought out sessions. Certainly it would make a great Horizon release - possibly the most popular one yet if it really succeeds in its aims!

I agree with that. It would definitely be costly to produce, and thus costly for us to buy. But how much do live musician costs? The price of a refined romantic strings library could be less than the cost of 1 recording session!!

No doubt in my mind within the next 5 years this will become scary, is it live or memorex?

No doubt it will be pricey. [:)] [:'(]

The sessions would have to be on a much grander scale than usual - not simply going in and recording the chromatic scales of each articulation, but actually performingmusic and then whittling away the 'excess'. There would be a fair amount of 'throw away' material played who's only purpose would be to get the expression of the actual sample being recorded correct. (if anyone here has seen - and remembers - the old Warner Bros. cartoon where they show a tooth pick being manufactured - big fearsome factory - with that typical Warner Bros. 'industrial' music - whole trees getting clear cut, shoved into a monstrous machine, big bruhaha, and then at the end from all that - one teeny little tooth pick, everything else waste [[;)]] - an exagerated image to help convey the idea [:D] ).
I don't see how else the sound is to be achieved, without actually coexing the musicians to perform, by actually performing. The session conductor in this case will really be put to work - just as much effort as recording an actual expressive performance, simple beat counting will not do!
And an actual well planned score would have to be written.


Oh and lets not forget, romantic chamber strings as well for divisi... the opening to the prelude to Lohengrin isn't just going to mock itself up. [:D]

@jc5 said:

...The session conductor in this case will really be put to work - just as much effort as recording an actual expressive performance, simple beat counting will not do!
And an actual well planned score would have to be written.

because you have obviously no idea what we are doing in the silent stage, i'm not offended. i thought, you guy's will discuss about the patches you prefer to use, which is the most useful articulation for you and so on, this would be interesting for us to know, to support our decision, which patches our pro-edition owners will get. don't take care how much i'm able to work within three day's, just tell us your patch wishlist.
regards, michael hula

I'll just state again, so it does not get lost. Since we can not record legato in that time (according to Herb) priority for me will be sustains in several velocities which we can crossfade between.

Romantic and lush, with shitloads of vibrato [:)]

Christian, speaking as the owner of the pro orchestral edition, I think most people who have replied on this thread would just welcome something with more "life" and "realism" than the existing violins which to me have a fatiquing thin, brittle sound, in the higher registers in particular. I don't know whether that is a recording technique problem, the acoustics of the silent stage, or the actual instruments and players or a combination or all three. This of course is my opinion and is meant to be constructive.

Best with the new recording sessions and best with the launch of VI.

@michi said:

don't take care how much i'm able to work within three day's, just tell us your patch wishlist.
regards, michael hula

I'm sure you can do quite a lot in 3 days Michael. [H]

Regarding previous posts and taking as much as I can remember into account, I think you could probably dispense with repetition style patches, more or less. How much time that saves - I have no idea.

The main crux would be legato. With no 'pulling back' of the sound in the higher registers especially - let's suggest from octave C above middle C.
The sound could be described as thick, lush and smooth, with variable degrees of vibrato.

Sometimes, and this applies to every string sound out there (even live!) - the strings can get slightly nasal sounding. That should be avoided with this foray into so-called Epic/Romantic Strings.

If you get this right ( and then go on to EXTEND if successful) - you will sell quite a few volumes I wouldn't wonder. What would be good would be if someone with the facility to post an extract MP3 of a section playing what they want or mean - because I have difficulty describing sound in words. Otherwise we'll be here until kingdom come trying to describe this.

Good luck.

As the now registered (and pleased as punch) owner of the Pro-Ed COP I feel I can constructively contribute to this discussion.

It's clear we will never agree on this string thing and feelings are running too high. people are only going to be upset.

So let's ditch the string thing and go straight for that missing Euphonium. Hey you've got Ian Bousfield principle trombone of the VSO on your doorstep who plays a mean euphonium and was bought up in the Black Dyke Mills Band. One man, three days - it's doable and this way everyone (excluding me) is equally upset.

You know it makes sense [:D]

bass flute, heckelphone (tenor oboe), contrabass clarinet, euphonium, and some more instruments are already in production
they should be releasable 2nd quarter 2006
so no mission necessary any more

best
Herb

@herb said:

...Euphonium, and some more instruments are already in production
they should be releasable 2nd quarter 2006
so no mission necessary any more

best
Herb

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thanks Herb

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"...The session conductor in this case will really be put to work - just as much effort as recording an actual expressive performance, simple beat counting will not do!
And an actual well planned score would have to be written." - jc5



I cringed at this some, because it really puts down the previous recordings, which are incredibly complex and difficult to do and pulled off brilliantly within limited time periods. Though I don't think JC5 meant to be offensive.

Dave Tuba King - why are your faces sad? I thought you'd be happy. Or are they tears of joy?

Tears of joy. I've got thru a whole box of Kleanex since Herb's announcement.

I wouldn't of mind having very expressiveintervals of 2 notes in a medium slow time. VSL would have to do all the intervals up and down starting on every note. From that you could build slow expressive melodies between several tracks, even though you'd be somehow limited, but still.

@jc5 said:

...The session conductor in this case will really be put to work - just as much effort as recording an actual expressive performance, simple beat counting will not do!
And an actual well planned score would have to be written.

because you have obviously no idea what we are doing in the silent stage, i'm not offended. i thought, you guy's will discuss about the patches you prefer to use, which is the most useful articulation for you and so on, this would be interesting for us to know, to support our decision, which patches our pro-edition owners will get. don't take care how much i'm able to work within three day's, just tell us your patch wishlist.
regards, michael hula

I assure you, in no way did I mean to offend! [:O]ops: [:)]
In what I wrote I was merely theorizing on a possible way of how to elicite the sort of performance that is being discussed - said method being time consuming is probably not even relatable to the current 3 day session (the results of which I'm not even in line to receive anyhow, not being a Pro Ed owner! [:P] )

I obviously don't know how the VSL team actually works in the rather unique setup of the Silent Stage, I can only theorize based on what I do know of how others have run sampling sessions (and from my own, admitedly rudimentary and meagre, sampling experiences).

My statement about the conducting was not a criticism of the existing work (which I bought, and couldn't live without now!) so much as my feeling that capturing such a specific (and context driven) musical 'mood' consistently across all the recordings would be more of a challenge - you will obviously know what the truth of this is or isn't more than any of us. [[;)]]

@William said:

"...The session conductor in this case will really be put to work - just as much effort as recording an actual expressive performance, simple beat counting will not do!
And an actual well planned score would have to be written." - jc5



I cringed at this some, because it really puts down the previous recordings, which are incredibly complex and difficult to do and pulled off brilliantly within limited time periods. Though I don't think JC5 meant to be offensive.

It seems my statement has been taken the wrong way (ah, the miscommunications of the internet!)... [:O]ops:

I would hardly be the one to put down the previous recordings - if anyone had the time or inclination to go through my statements here and elsewhere in previous discussions, the will see the almost universal approval I heap on the VSL samples.. [:D]

I am not one of those who find the existing strings lacking in 'warmth' - to me they simply are the best. And consistently so down the sections - whereas others focus solely on getting decent violins, and everything else is... lets just say neglected! [8-)]