One also has to wonder just how much will always be lacking in any sample library since they players are playing static notes.

There must be some indescribable, unrecordable, aspect of playing a full line vs. sampling one note at a time that keeps this whole thing elusive.

I imagine it's very difficult for the players to achieve any emotion during a sampling session!

TH

@herb said:

The stuff produced in this three days will be a freebee for our Pro's, as announced.
If we see this production is promising, there is of course the option to expand this to a bigger, official VI product.

best
Herb

So what you're saying here Herb is that the 3 day session cycle is sort of an experimental foray - and if this works out well, we could be talking fairly extensive Epic String library to be forthcoming?

I was wondering if it would make sense to record this large section playing (f-ff) espressivo in octaves. Often you hear oktavized melodic lines in the violins when you talk about "that" epic sound. I have a hunch it would work much better if recorded in one sample, instead of just layering the samples we have at hand now..

Oh, and how about taking a trip into the center and do the recording in Konzerthaus?? [:D]

Yes, octaves would be important. Although personally I might prefer to play the part in octaves myself using both hands. Having recorded octaves is very handy, I admit, but also limits the dynamics range between the 2 notes. Example, if in your octave melody you happen to repeat a note 5 times, the dynamic range between both notes will be the same for every note you play and that kills expression. But I also understand not everybody is a pianist...

@Nicklas said:

[...] Oh, and how about taking a trip into the center and do the recording in Konzerthaus?? [:D]

Don't worry, _this_ is the easier part. We have already recorded all the famous halls of the Vienna Konzerthaus for the MIR, in about every aspect you can think about - epic as well as pathetic [+o(]

@Dietz said:

[...] epic as well as pathetic [+o(]

The pathetic would be for Pathos i presume.
As a humorous aside Dietz, will this 'apethetic' articulation be available for the extended Cube library in the future?

Regards to you all,

Alex!

[H]

@Dietz said:

... as well as pathetic [+o(]

Ooh. I hadn't thought of "pathetic strings" before now. Of course! A stroke of genius ... very meek, tinny, somewhat out of tune, bad sounding strings ... but incredibly realistic, in a fifth-rate community orchestra sort of way.

Just the thing for that "student recital" cue, perhaps. No more need to hire bad violinists. Ah, the possibilities!

- Paul Smith

Nice idea, Paul, but I was referring more to the possibilty to use instruments at non-conventional, strange-sounding positions of the MIR-sampled halls, too, like standing outside the stage-door .... [;)]

Funny this should come up. I've had this idea for a long time...seriously...to do a 'School Orchestra' sample library, for those very moments - they come up more often than you think don't they?

Probably won't need 500GB though! [:)]

Colin

@cwillsher said:

Funny this should come up. I've had this idea for a long time...seriously...to do a 'School Orchestra' sample library, for those very moments - they come up more often than you think don't they?

Probably won't need 500GB though! [:)]

Colin

Nah, I can do that without samples, and without trying. It's the pro orchestra sound that I have trouble with.

DG

Dietz,

Have you killed this thread?[:P]

Hopefully not! [H]

"Just for info:

to produce a performance interval instrument with one dynamic layer would take the major part of the six sessions. some small add ons are possible.
It's not possible to produce two performance intervall sets in this time.

We have to decide: focus on this performance thing, or more variations of "standard" samples

best
Herb"

This is a lovely offer...

I think Jay hit it on the head with extend it to include 2 dynamics with per-legato. It would also be nice to get a set of staccs to go with them.

That said I have never seen a large string ensemble sampled well. Most often in samples, the larger the section, the more synthy it becomes. Large sections of course can be fantastic recorded live, but so far the larger sections sampled (EW, KH) do not work well. Jay also pointed out doing a test session. I realize it would be another expense but far better than spending 3 days recording and coming out with what seemed to be great recordings, but not great samples.

My 2 cents

I agree with that - the larger section does not necessarily translate into larger sound in a mix. You stop hearing individual players within sections (which helps with an impression of size) and the sound becomes more homogenous. It can actually sound smaller because all those players are being crammed into one patch. In general, layering accomplishes far more size in a mix than using one monolithically huge section.

It's not that I'm against a larger section, but just that it's far more crucial to do the recording of the missing legato articulations.

@Dietz said:

Nice idea, Paul, but I was referring more to the possibilty to use instruments at non-conventional, strange-sounding positions of the MIR-sampled halls, too, like standing outside the stage-door .... [;)]

Dietz, there are tons of IR reverbs that can do that, please don't spend 3 days recording a string orchestra from a bathroom !!
[*-)]

@Laurent said:

...please don't spend 3 days recording a string orchestra from a bathroom !!
[*-)]

[[[:D]]] [[[:D]]] [[[:D]]]

[Uhm - things become a little bit weird now, so I will just emphasize that we neither sample strings in a bathroom nor the reverb of the latter, and rest my case.] [*-)]

@Dietz said:

[Uhm - things become a little bit weird now, so I will just emphasize that we neither sample strings in a bathroom nor the reverb of the latter, and rest my case.] [*-)]

The words "Vienna Symphonic Lavatory" come to mind. [[;)]]

Sorry, I just couldn't suppress that one.

Duncan

Really Duncan, you should've taken your Pepto Bismal.

@Craig Sharmat said:

That said I have never seen a large string ensemble sampled well. Most often in samples, the larger the section, the more synthy it becomes. Large sections of course can be fantastic recorded live, but so far the larger sections sampled (EW, KH) do not work well.

Having produced one set of the above initials in three different formats, I can experientially disagree. That's because we found that what creates the synthiness is processing.

I have a set of gig files from the above initials that were not processed. Just basic looping, a little filtering for noise, and that's it.

The sound is really unbelievable. I had Larry Seyer (Larry Seyer Reverb in GS3) listen to it, and he concurred.

Then I talked to the fellow who's reprogramming GOSII but in Kontakt. He removed all the processing from the original set and got the same results we did.

Both of these string sets were recorded in two different halls. One was in Lincoln Center, and the other I'm under non-disclosure to not reveal. But independent of each other we achieved similar results.

I tested my set with very dense harmony from Vaughn Williams, and I didn't have any synthiness at all. Nor phasing.

FYI, the above is NOT an ad. [[:|]]