the only big improvement in content of the old stuff is the reprograming of the perf rep patches but its not with 4-11 grand. I'd pay a modest fee to have those newly edited samples of my old content for giga studio. I don't really need the new interface. Though it's purported sample loading efficency sounds promising.

I am not sure if the new content will include stuff like improved legato violins or something like that but I'd be inerested to hear what they sound like.

Wow - Baghdad Cafe is a seriously weird film.

Anyway, can't go to Quicktime 7 right now - need to be at least OS 10.9 - I daren't update from 10.8 to that at this time. So it could be that for sure, although never any problems in the past. No worries on the vids at this time though. Can't right click either Joseph - Mac mouse hahaa! Tried the 'download' also. It's not a problem - I will get to see them soon no doubt.

Dear PaulR,

I believe it's Control-Click for right clicking on a Mac. Should open up new worlds for you.

Jack

@Jack Weaver said:

Dear PaulR,

I believe it's Control-Click for right clicking on a Mac. Should open up new worlds for you.

Jack

Dear Jack,

Yeah - tried all that before - doesn't work/thanks.

I think it does introduce new and important features that aim exactly for the weaknesses in sampling (as repetitions).. my concerns are mostly about usability in a large orchestral context..
Will I need 10-15 DAWs to run that thing properly? Will it be complicated, like "ah, ok wich articulations did I assign to the mod wheel for the flutes again.." and long ot use, so that the results are too slow to respond to the demands? How stable and well working is the new sample engine?
I most certainly would want to try the software before I'd consider buying it, but if I understood this right, we have to pay the full price first (not an upgrade price) and we then only get the upgrade price on the extention..

Well, I for one think that the VI concept seems to be absolutely fantastic and an excellent achievement. It seems very straightforward to use, flexible and efficient in terms of RAM usage etc.

I also think it's great to offer it split up in sections, since a lot of people obviously wanted to be able to buy "only the Woodwinds" and so on. Good call indeed.

I only have a couple of concerns really:

My first one (which apparently many share with me) is how the upgrades from older versions of VSL will work out. I'm however confident that VSL will not go back on their promises (such as the VIP guarantee) and make sure that old customers are taken care of in the best manner possible.

My second concern is related to the fact that the VI samples won't be editable by users. IMO, this makes it even more important that VSL adresses some of the few problems remaining in an otherwise excellent product that only grew even better with the VI's.

I'm talking about stuff like inconsistencies between samples (for example jumps in timbre within the same instrument/articulation that sound unnatural) and the phasing occuring when crossfading in some instruments.

If these problems were fixed, then an already brilliant product would IMO come as close to perfection as it's almost humanly possible when it comes to sample libraries.

I'm pretty confident MIR will also be very interesting. If it turns out only half as good as the VI's seem to be, then it will also be excellent.

R

Hey paynterr,

If you're on Mac, I'm almost ready with my app. It's a similar idea to what the Vienna Instruments do, but it uses an analysis delay, sort of like Synful. This means that it's not "real time", but on the other hand there's no sample loading/buffering to be done (or rather, it's done during playback), so you can access any sample at any time, regardless of RAM (well, almost!). I've been testing it with a piece I'm writing for wind quintet (all Opus 1-based), and RAM usage sits around 256 MB -- remember, this is with NO limitations on articulations. There's also a couple of what I call "Spectralist" instruments, which allow realtime spectral morphing between any two instruments -- pretty fun making crazy hybrids, like the Fliolin (FL1 and VI morphed)!!!

Anyway, there's still work to be done on the GUI. I'm hoping to release it in early 2006, and I'm hoping VSL won't mind me posting a little note about it here -- it will be a different manner of beast, in many ways, and will soften the blow a little for those who can't manage the Vienna Instruments yet. It will be donate-according-to-your-conscience-ware, so just Paypal me a self-defined "appropriate" amount of dough if you find it useful!

Anyway, I know I've mentioned it before, and nothing's come out yet, but I swear by the sweat of my oft-furrowed brow that it's not vapor-ware! It just takes time -- between composing, and working two day-jobs!

cheers,

J.

@jbm said:

Hey paynterr,

If you're on Mac, I'm almost ready with my app. It's a similar idea to what the Vienna Instruments do, but it uses an analysis delay, sort of like Synful. This means that it's not "real time", but on the other hand there's no sample loading/buffering to be done (or rather, it's done during playback), so you can access any sample at any time, regardless of RAM (well, almost!). I've been testing it with a piece I'm writing for wind quintet (all Opus 1-based), and RAM usage sits around 256 MB -- remember, this is with NO limitations on articulations. There's also a couple of what I call "Spectralist" instruments, which allow realtime spectral morphing between any two instruments -- pretty fun making crazy hybrids, like the Fliolin (FL1 and VI morphed)!!!

Anyway, there's still work to be done on the GUI. I'm hoping to release it in early 2006, and I'm hoping VSL won't mind me posting a little note about it here -- it will be a different manner of beast, in many ways, and will soften the blow a little for those who can't manage the Vienna Instruments yet. It will be donate-according-to-your-conscience-ware, so just Paypal me a self-defined "appropriate" amount of dough if you find it useful!

Anyway, I know I've mentioned it before, and nothing's come out yet, but I swear by the sweat of my oft-furrowed brow that it's not vapor-ware! It just takes time -- between composing, and working two day-jobs!

cheers,

J.

Hi there,
I imagine VSL will mind you posting this as your tool wins hands down against the new VSTi which is overcomplicated and doesn't tackle the core problems of usability etc.
You are very much taking the right approach to how to make orchestral instruments. As is synful.
I very much look forward to details on how this is coming along.
I laughed yesterday when the discount calculator told me it would expect me to pay 3500 for the same sets of samples I already own... with what is essentially just a an improvement in the GUI and workflow by removing what I consider to be a deficient implementation of the performance tool.
I am probably soon to be an ex-VSL customer.
That said, I may very well buy your tool.
Does it work with performance tool too?
Cheers
R

@jbm said:

Hey paynterr,

If you're on Mac, I'm almost ready with my app. It's a similar idea to what the Vienna Instruments do, but it uses an analysis delay, sort of like Synful. This means that it's not "real time", but on the other hand there's no sample loading/buffering to be done (or rather, it's done during playback), so you can access any sample at any time, regardless of RAM (well, almost!). I've been testing it with a piece I'm writing for wind quintet (all Opus 1-based), and RAM usage sits around 256 MB -- remember, this is with NO limitations on articulations. There's also a couple of what I call "Spectralist" instruments, which allow realtime spectral morphing between any two instruments -- pretty fun making crazy hybrids, like the Fliolin (FL1 and VI morphed)!!!

Anyway, there's still work to be done on the GUI. I'm hoping to release it in early 2006, and I'm hoping VSL won't mind me posting a little note about it here -- it will be a different manner of beast, in many ways, and will soften the blow a little for those who can't manage the Vienna Instruments yet. It will be donate-according-to-your-conscience-ware, so just Paypal me a self-defined "appropriate" amount of dough if you find it useful!

Anyway, I know I've mentioned it before, and nothing's come out yet, but I swear by the sweat of my oft-furrowed brow that it's not vapor-ware! It just takes time -- between composing, and working two day-jobs!

cheers,

J.

Sounds fascinating - are you saying that this app will make ram problems virtually irrelevant by sidestepping the whole buffer loading issue? Does it work in conjunction with existing samplers, or is it actually a sampler?
I certainly hope you will port to pc, and fast! [[;)]]

Well... my tool doesn't win hands-down against anything as far as the big public is concerned, since it isn't actually available! Also, I really don't want to go up against VSL -- I wrote this as a tool for myself, as it seemed clear that it would be possible to do. I've had ideas to do something like this since before I even knew about VSL, and I finallly managed to build something that works.
There are many great things about the Vienna Instruments (a high degree of flexibility of user-configuration, for one), and I seriously doubt that I can get my tool to perform at as high a level as far as polyphony goes... (Not certain about this, since I haven't done that much stress-testing.) That said, so far my app is working very well (in fact, a little better than I expected!), and certainly makes my life much easier.
It doesn't use the Performance Tool, as it performs this function itself. And yes, it is a sampler, of sorts -- a sample player, with intelligent interpretation.
And yes, buffering is done on the fly, so there's no pre-loading of samples -- one thing it definitely IS is RAM-friendly!
I have two commissions that need to be done over the next month, or so, so I'll be pressed for time, but I'm also putting a strong push on getting it out into the world.
Windows is a problem primarily because the licencing for MaxMSP (the primary platform upon which the app is built) requires me to pay $1000 up front to even offer Windows support. Lame, but unavoidable. If it looks like there will be some demand, and I have some spare dough, I may thrown down for the licencing... we'll see.
As far as Herb and an announcement goes, I do remember quite a while ago that cm was quite supportive, and gave me the "okay" to post an announcement. Obviously, things are different now that the VIs are out...
Personally, I don't think they should really mind. I mean, it is going to be donate-ware (at least for now), and any money I make is pretty much going straight into Herb's pockets! (There's still a few thousand dollars worth of VSL I'm really dying to have!). (And yes, that DOES include a few Vienna Instruments!)

cheers,

J.

@jbm said:

Well... my tool doesn't win hands-down against anything as far as the big public is concerned, since it isn't actually available! Also, I really don't want to go up against VSL -- I wrote this as a tool for myself, as it seemed clear that it would be possible to do. I've had ideas to do something like this since before I even knew about VSL, and I finallly managed to build something that works.
There are many great things about the Vienna Instruments (a high degree of flexibility of user-configuration, for one), and I seriously doubt that I can get my tool to perform at as high a level as far as polyphony goes... (Not certain about this, since I haven't done that much stress-testing.) That said, so far my app is working very well (in fact, a little better than I expected!), and certainly makes my life much easier.
It doesn't use the Performance Tool, as it performs this function itself. And yes, it is a sampler, of sorts -- a sample player, with intelligent interpretation.
And yes, buffering is done on the fly, so there's no pre-loading of samples -- one thing it definitely IS is RAM-friendly!
I have two commissions that need to be done over the next month, or so, so I'll be pressed for time, but I'm also putting a strong push on getting it out into the world.
Windows is a problem primarily because the licencing for MaxMSP (the primary platform upon which the app is built) requires me to pay $1000 up front to even offer Windows support. Lame, but unavoidable. If it looks like there will be some demand, and I have some spare dough, I may thrown down for the licencing... we'll see.
As far as Herb and an announcement goes, I do remember quite a while ago that cm was quite supportive, and gave me the "okay" to post an announcement. Obviously, things are different now that the VIs are out...
Personally, I don't think they should really mind. I mean, it is going to be donate-ware (at least for now), and any money I make is pretty much going straight into Herb's pockets! (There's still a few thousand dollars worth of VSL I'm really dying to have!). (And yes, that DOES include a few Vienna Instruments!)

cheers,

J.

jbm, that is pretty exciting!
My biggest problem is the constant 'harassment' of ram limits. If your tool can solve that, it would be great.
I for one wouldn't regard this as 'going up against VSL', since such a tool would stand to benefit VSL users most of all (due to the generally large size libraries - and I love each and every one of them, each and every last detailed little articulation [[;)]] ).
Take a real life example - right now I'm debating whether I should get the chamber strings during the winter sale - one of my biggest concerns (apart from my own poverty, heh) is how I am going to incorporate these samples into my already overburdened setup (to make use of them as actual divisi). A tool like yours has the potential to eliminate such a problem, and would be nothing but an encouragement to freely add more libraries to my arsenal.

I'm sorry to hear about the licencing issue for Windows, but I do urge you to make the move. I am but a poor composer, but I guarantee that I would donate something within my means to the creator of something so useful - something that I can say without exageration has the potential to genuinely improve my quality of life on a daily basis, heh. [:)]
And I really do not doubt that there will be many others out there who will feel the same way.

Do keep us posted regarding further developments, and details of how it all works!

jc5:

I second everything jbm wrote. I will still buy and use the VSL products including the VI because it certainly sounds like a powerful and useful tool. At the same time, I would happily donate to your app. if you can get it working for Windows. To me, that would mean having the best of both worlds. All the "old" Vienna stuff would be useful and you'd have access to the raw samples if you wanted to edit them, while the ease of use of the new VI engine and the extra material would also be there. Wow!! It would be great!

IMO many of the best things are those people build for themselves. No decisions need be made for commercial reasons, you're just building something that you need or want for a specific purpose. Obviously, you have a life so you have to get to it when you can. I hope you'll keep us posted.

Be Well,

Poppa

For what it's worth, I too could not download the movies. I got the behavior that Paul described. On Mac 10.4, I downloaded about 30%, then nothing. On XP, it just said it was getting the file information and didn't get any further. I tried a few times throughout the day.

I have seen the videos now, so all is well. But maybe cm could give it a look.

jbm,

I am intrigued by your software to put it very mildly. I have some friends who have blown my mind with some of the things they have done with MaxMSP so I find it very easy to believe that your software will be a very useful tool for me.

I am curious if your software will work with the Redmatica EXSManager or does it need to operate independently, even independent of the EXS using the original sample data? Is it its own AU plugin? So sorry if my questions are premature but I think it would be great fun to play a Fliolin in the near future!

I'm sure VSL would be pleased with yet another developer (alongside Redmatica) increasing the functionality of their products. If they think its appeal is broad enough they might even provide you with a special link like they did for the EXSManager.

Clark

@Another User said:

IMO many of the best things are those people build for themselves. No decisions need be made for commercial reasons, you're just building something that you need or want for a specific purpose. Obviously, you have a life so you have to get to it when you can. I hope you'll keep us posted.

Be Well,

Poppa

So very true, so very true! [H]

Hey Folks,

First, thanks for the support -- it's pushing development up my list of things to do!

clarkcontrol: It will probably end up in the same "flavours" as the VIs -- a VSTi and a standalone. I experimented a lot with midi tools in Max, but they could never get past the RAM problems, since the sampler always had to load a complete keymap (i.e., a full range of pitches for any given articulation). I'm actually never loading a keymap, just the notes I need. So it had to be an instrument in itself. I had an incarnation about a year ago (what!!?... omg) which analyzed midi files to create a sample list, then played through the list, but it was kludgy beyond belief, so I went "back to the drawing board". Keep in mind that my app does use an analysis window, like Synful, so you'll need to get the start times worked out if you're using it with other samplers or synths. But I've been thinking of quantizing this delay so that it would (or could) be a number of beats at a certain tempo, rather than milliseconds. This would make the whole issue of synchronization with other parts really simple -- just nudge it back a couple of beats in your sequencer.
My original plan was to build a standalone that could be used with Finale or Sibelius, so that's the ideal setup. But no reason why it won't work with other seqeuncers.

Again, thanks for the support. I'll keep you posted with any news.

J.

@jbm said:

My original plan was to build a standalone that could be used with Finale or Sibelius, so that's the ideal setup.

Yes. Yes it is the ideal setup. [:)] [[;)]]