It seems like Herb is going to let the storm quiet down and make no changes to the VIP prices.

Since there is NO incentive to buy into the VI (the organ is really not a deal maker), there are going to be two camps out there -
1) people who spent good money on a VSL lib
2) people who spent the EXACT SAME money on the VI version.

The VI people get a massively improved work flow with the VI. They get speed control and universal mode etc.

We the early adopters are stuck in previous technology.

AND WE SPENT THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF MONEY!

Since there is no incentive and we are left behind - I for one am going to wait and see what ewqlso has to offer soon.
Kontakt should easily be able to do what the VI player can do if they decide to update it with those features.

Any way you slice it - VSL wants $5000 from me to update my VSL and stay with their current technology. This the most expensive upgrade in library history.
$5000 ... hmm ..... ewqlso phase three + ewqlso choir + true strike = A LOT LESS THAN 5K.

Ultimately my disappointment will lead me to keep my credit card in my wallet and VSL is currently the most disappointing investment I have ever made. And I owned Pro Tools back when it was sound tools!!! So I have some experience with painful upgrade cycles.

Ed: Again you speak for me also!

Thanks for wording it so succinctly.

[:)]

...I guess that's how unions were born!

Thanks guys. Really I am just trying to calmly make our case to Herb.

And I have to add that it shows immense class on Herb's part to let us express ourselves in this forum unsensored.
While he has made no effort to work with us ...
He has also been the very model of a classy gentleman.

It is so damn hard to be mad about this when I am impressed with every aspect of this company.

But this terrible VIP upgrade offer leaves such a bad taste in my mouth. Bad enough that it could forever change how its hard core user base feels about VSL.

Herb, I am mad as hell at you. But you (and the whole VSL) are truely a class act.

Here is my solution after much consideration:

Take that 5,000 dollars and invest in Apple stock. Wait for it to double again-sell at 10,000. Then buy the VI. (that might take a year) Take the remaining 5k and buy oil futures. Wait for that to double and then buy the complete package

Herb will just have to wait.... awhile to get my cash.

Then again-if the initial VI upgrade was more in the realm of reason I would have ordered this week.

And yah- I would rather be composing than watching the stock market. But I can get by with the tools that i already own and paid hard earned cash for.

@Bruce said:

Take the remaining 5k and buy oil futures.

Oil has no future! [:P] BAD investment

(Maybe we should move this to the Which Investment Monthly Forum?) [:D]

yes on the apple investment. It's going to go up again when the intels start coming out and at the price they'll be at they'll definately boost switchers.

I agree once again with Ed.

I can't deny it hurts to not be able to use this new technology at a reasonable upgrade path I can afford when it honestly makes the old EXS load your tracks system look like something from a dark and dismal prehistory that you'd rather forget and burn the history books of, I'm talking torture and punishment and all the while you thought IT was the good life only to be slapped in the face by the new era of trains planes and automobiles when you've just come out of the jungle on your horse and buggy. he he.

I mean lets be honest, that's why we're all hurting. It's like we bought a car and it was pretty good had wheels and engine, it went places ie a to b looked great. NOW they've just released a brand new Astin Martin style design at the same price and now the old "thing" just looks like junk all of a sudden. "Thanks for helping us built this baby guys sorry the old model looks like crap in comparison just now but well that's business, hey by the way this new model also transforms into a submarine has oxygen recycling runs on safe nuclear technology for a million years without repowering and also can fly at mach7 and the extended edition travells through time yeah, just like that movie back to the future. Now we know it looks/sounds the same as the old one, but believe us, the engine is COMPLETELY different." only this isn't cars it's software and we're all part of the system at least that is how we *felt*. [:'(]

Sorry for the poetic license. [*-)]

And finally I submit. It's the best damn product on the market bar none. It's a must have for any composer worth his organic sea salt. [[:|]]

Just take the money (he sheilds his tearful eyes and hands the fat wad of bills over shaking it while looking away) "TAKE IT TELL YOU TAKE IT TAKE IT I SUBMIT. I PLEDGE MYSELF TO YOUR TEACHINGS" [:'(]

he he

sorry just having fun. [:D]

And hey Herb/VSL yes you are classy to let us discuss this on the forum. You can afford to afterall, VSL really is the best.

@mpower88 said:

yes on the apple investment. It's going to go up again when the intels start coming out and at the price they'll be at they'll definately boost switchers.

Definitely? Do I have your guarantee on that? OK then -

BUY BUY BUY!!!

no money. wanna lend me 50k? [:P]

As someone who bought the First Edition in June of 2003 and the Pro Edition in Dec 2003. complete, I have been an enthusiastic VSL supporter among my friends and fellow composers. As thrilled as I have been to experience the sound of VSL, and use what I believe to be the best sample library available, I find my dissapointment in how the company is choosing to handling this upgrade overwhelming. I have never been as unhappy as I am at this moment with a musical purchase. I sincerely hope that the previous posts are taken to heart. [*-)]

@mpower88 said:

no money. wanna lend me 50k? [[:P]]

Based on the information you have given so far - it has to be a no - you are a very poor risk.

[[:P]]

sorry for going on again, but when I add up what I have spent for the first and pro editions, and go to the calculator, even with the discount I am paying MORE than if I just bought the Cube. Is this the reality of the upgrade? Can anyone tell me? Amazing! So much for loyalty. I thought I was mad before.

Perry, I did the same thing and posted in another thread. I didn't read this thread until now.

Ed, you've made a good statement for all of us. I hope that Herb realizes how important it is for all of us.
I'm going to stop posting now and go back to scoring. I've spent enought time posting and everything that needed to be said, has pretty much been said.

Herb the ball is in your court. I'm going to check back in on the forum in a few days or weeks.

In actual fact, I think the pricing is right. What is wrong is that in order to get the upgrade path, you have to buy the extended version. That is the only reason people are peeved. If you could buy the standard version, IE get the software instrument and start using it now via an upgrade path, that would be great. That would be the normal expected course for things and then you would expect to pay the extra money for the extended edition since it's not essential material but I imagine great to have.

Well at least that is how I see it, I'm a pro edition owner.

If it were possible to buy the upgrade to the standard version, what do you think would be a fair price? As a Pro Edition user, you and I have both spent close to $5000. already.

Mpower,

I would agree with your assesment.
Had the VIP path been as you suggested -
small fee for pro edition owners to move to the cube standard VI. and
the $4690 for the extended ....

This weekend would been full of fun discussions about the VI.

Pissed though I may be, I just can't imagine that the VIP offer came from a place of greed. Or that VSL is happy about sticking to us a bit.
I am inclined to think that it was nessasary to get us to buy in at top dollar to begin with.
It's quite smart actually as there would have been MANY of us who would have sidegraded and never gone for the extended set.
Now we either have to live with the old system or pony up all over again.

They crunched the numbers. And maybe they had an idea they would face some discontentment.
It will subside. We will see it at namm. Most will dig deep and buy in again.

Realistically there were only so many potential buyers for VSL and most are already in the pool.
When you look at it from the perspective of how to make the highest percentage of us go for the full Cube ..... this was ingeneous.

Mpower - I would add to you post in that if the total amount came out to be a tad less than a new buyer would be paying .... there would be no ill will at the moment.
Maybe even if the extended version was completely free to long time owners .... there would have been no problem.

Maybe if owning the 1st edition in addition to the Pro Edition offered an extra benefit ......

ed, im sorry but there is no option of upgrading from the pro to SC std. comparing the prices (5.990 $ vs. 4.620 $) and considering the content (many horizon instruments are included in the SC) it might get clear that such an *upgrade* would be in fact a downgrade regarding the amount of content you already have with the pro.
we had a similar discussion earlier related to not possible upgrades from opus 1 to the first - on one hand it doesn't make sense and on the other hand the content is not correlating.
i have to admit with a few special setups and situations such combinations could make sense (expand special instruments, add at least something from new instruments) but basically this cannot be offered as an option for the reasons mentioned above.
hope this will find your understanding, christian

As has been said several times already this is not simply an upgrade - you get the 24bit samples which have also been re-mapped to work with the VI and you get the new state of the art VI.

Your existing 16 bit samples don't work with the VI.

Should VSL have made the new articulations available in 16 bit in Giga and Mac versions?

I can understand the concern of people who have recently ordered the pro-ed but certainly not those who have had the product and presumably used it for two years.

Perhaps (as happened with me with Sonar 3/4) there should be an offer to people who have purchased Pro-ed in the last say 4 months for a straight deal that you end up paying no more than the differnce between what you paid for the Pro-ed and the opening price for the standard SC. You could then pay the full price for the extended version, minus the remaining samples hanging over from the pro-ed, plus a sum to reflect they are 24bit and remapped. Another problem is where do you put the cut off date for pro-ed purchase.

All in all it is a very difficult situation which also has to factor in the distribtuion issues Herb has mentioned. You can never please all of the people all of the time that's the same for any upgrade - and this is much more than just an upgrade. So perhaps after a year of thinking about it Herb et all have come up with just about the best or perhaps least difficult compromise.