Well it seems clear there is no discount until you purchase the extended version. That in and of itself seems unfair to me and contrary to the "never pay for the same sounds twice". And if you do purchase the extneded version the discount can't possibly be equal to the purchase price of the products you already own. The discount from first to pro ed. however was exactly the difrence in price. I was expecting something similar with this upgrade. Granted, there is so much more bundled in it is actually very reasonably priced and somewhat fair especialy with the 35% discount (provided you can make use of all the content).

@julian said:

This would mean that there is no discount for a Symphonic Cube even if you own the complete Pro Edition... however if you choose the extended version you will pay less than the full price for the extension. Unless the discount calculator (when on line) throws up a bigger discount it would not appear to represent a great deal for those who have already spent £3660 on the Pro Edition.

I understood it the same way.

I have Chamber Strings, so I'll have to buy the Standard VI Chamber Strings for 495 EUR.

Then I will be eligible to upgrade to the Extended Version for 30 EUR.

[*-)]

I still don't get the VIP-pricing...waiting eagerly for the discount calculator...

Why would I now buy e.g. Horizon Chamber for the Holiday Price €530, and later upgrade to the VI Chamber for €495 + €30 for the extended library? That is a total of €1055. Buying VI Chamber Exteded Library only (and not Horizon Chamber) would only cost me €595.

Cheers,

Chris

The price explained and confirmed by 'cm':

http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=6740

Toward the bottom of the page.

Don't think that the "never pay for the same sample twice" policy is being abandoned by requiring purchase of the standard content of the new VIs.

You see, if you have sample A and the VSL has now (re-?)released the same sound, but in 24 bits, they don't consider it the "same" any more. It's now sample B, which you have not already paid for and don't already have on your disc. Sure it may sound exactly the same in the mind of human, but not in the mind of a computer [[;)]]

If it weren't for the new software, I must confess, I would be much less able to stomach such semantic hairsplitting needed to claim that the VSL is taking care of its existing user-base.

And, really, the extended content offered for only a "handling" fee is generous. After all, the VSL is a company that innovates and needs to make money to be able to continue to do so. So, the cost for the upgrade, although it may violate the spirit of the "never pay twice" promise, should be considered as the cost for R&D, quality and usability for the best product available in this field.

Paul Smith

... but i have to add that you get the discount for your registered products, although the samoles are 24 bit now. the number of samples has appr. doubled from the pro edition
christian

"please don't worry about your VIP prices - they had to be realized as (significant) discounts on the extended content for your already registered products.
otherwise it would have been almost impossible to sell it through dealers "

SO...

Don't sell VIP pricing through dealers. Problem solved.

Clark

er..

I mean to say offer the "standard" packages with VIP adjusted prices only through this website.

Clark

The current(old) VIP pricing was buy 1st edition £2,267, VIP upgrade to Pro Edition £1,393. Total cost £3660 against the retail price of £3660 for the Pro Edition.

Now the pricing appears to be: buy Pro Edition £3660, VIP upgrade to Symphonic Cube £2600 Total cost £6200 against a retail price of £2600. If there is a free upgrade (not confirmed anywhere) to the extended edition it still leaves a total purchase cost of £6200 against a retail of £3,537.

I appreciate that the samples may all now be 24bit but I'd guess they are from the same recordings that produced the 16 bit samples. The VSL library is a significant and excellent product and for a new purchaser offers fantastic value for money considering the development and on going work. however I can't help feeling that, if my understanding of the upgrade paths is correct, the best deal is definitely for the new purchasers rather than the earlier investors. I hope we may be proved wrong once we are able to view the online VIP pricing.

Julian

Good points, but lets not forget that most of VSL's market are not newcomers but upgraders, give too much a VIP discount and you're losing a big chunk of your profits, and projects like this deserve a nice financhial reward.

MAGATES I'm with you man. I was certainly led to believe very different. It seems the obvious pricing scheme should be the other way around! [*-)]

IE: Full price for extended material
Discount price for existing owners (based on what they own) to upgrade to the new version. Really, we should be paying for the software instrument and integration. I make that at a value of not more than $1500USD and charge what you like for the extended material, and charge what you like for new customers paying full price.

Personally my gripe: I expected 24bit samples when I *bought* my VSL because that's what it said on the advertisement at ilio.com it said "pristime 96k 24bit samples" LITERALLY. I bought it cause of that, actually I don't mind doing without the 96k but I miss the 24bit.

I paid $9600 Australian which is about $7000 USD for the complete symphonic pro edition. I realise we have to pay a good price for this software which has cost a lot of develop and VSL has to make a profit but I'm afraid as much as I support VSL I have to say I'm also not feeling too positive about this pricing scheme, it doesn't seem to be a fair upgrade path at all, especially as we already own the samples.

I just won't buy it at that price.

Miklos.

@Another User said:

at ilio.com it said "pristime 96k 24bit samples"

sorry, there cannot have been such an announcement - the´VSL website and all distributers communicated clearly 16 bit 44.1
christian

I stand by my feeling that it seems like long term VSL users who've bought everything since day one are getting left out in the cold as they will overall pay much more for this upgrade. (around 13 grand.)

As I could essentially buy everything at 35% off right now and upgrade for 4 grand and some change and come out WAY better.

@Another User said:

...another example: if you have already the pro edition complete orchestral package and all related horizons (solo, chamber, harps, french oboe, woodwind ens, epic horns) you will only have to pay 320 EUR for the extended content additionally to the 3.900 EUR for the standard content. this results in an *overall upgrade price* of 4220 EUR to the complete symphonic cube
christian

But until the Discount Calculator is online, we can't be certain about what it will cost each of us.

Cheers,
Mobius

@Joseph Burrell said:

I stand by my feeling that it seems like long term VSL users who've bought everything since day one are getting left out in the cold as they will overall pay much more for this upgrade. (around 13 grand.)

As I could essentially buy everything at 35% off right now and upgrade for 4 grand and some change and come out WAY better.

Don't forget that long-term users have been using their library longer than more recent adopters. Therefore they have, quite rightly, paid more for that privilege.

But until the Discount Calculator is online, we can't be certain about what it will cost each of us.

Mobius[/quote]

Given the high level of interest and general feeling on this thread perhaps the VSL team are working away at the discount calculator software to see what magic they can weave!

Julian

I very rarely write on this forum but I've been around for a LONG LONG time. I can't help myself from droping a few lines this time...


Well, I was into VSL since day one and currently own Pro edition, solo strings and saxophones (which won't come into account in the Cube ) ...

I've supported the developments since day one and have obviously spent a serious amount of money.

What if I'm not interested by the extended edition.
What if I'm only interested in the 'instrument software' and 24 bit thing. I mean just the Standard Library.

As I understand things now...

VSL is now telling me I have to pay the exact same price as a new user who never spent a penny.

VSL is NOT offering a VIP access to 1st level Cube. (Standard Cube Library)

Unless we go for extended libraries, this time you guys at VSL are really making us pay double for stuff we already have. It's pretty clear to every one.

You can put it any way you want, CM & Herb... This is particularly unclassy.

This is not what you've made us believe untill today about the VSL's philosophy... Sorry.

I'm not so sure you deserved all the good things I've said about VSL after all.

I have no doubt that many many pro edition users will feel pretty bad about it.

I'm so disapointed.

Sure, I'll buy your stuff. You'll get my hard earned money.

I don't like the way you're getting it from me chaps...

Charl



[:@] [:@] [:@] [:@]

@Another User said:

at ilio.com it said "pristime 96k 24bit samples"

sorry, there cannot have been such an announcement - the´VSL website and all distributers communicated clearly 16 bit 44.1
christian

I can't believe they still haven't clarified this even after I complained initially. This is from the iliio.com website today:

At a glance

• Features top musicians from Vienna’s renowned orchestras
• Single note samples and performance elements
• Includes the revolutionary Performance Tool
• Solo instruments and ensembles
• Complete range of expression and performance styles
• Many rare instruments that have never been sampled before
• Will eventually comprise up to 1.5 million individual samples
********• Recorded in 24-bit/96 kHz, stereo*********
• Recorded at Silent Stage (the specially constructed recording stage near Vienna)
• Practically no noise-floor (average 90 dB signal to noise)
• Created and conducted by master musician/composer/director Herb Tucmandl
• Over 30 specialized editing engineers
• Configured initially for TASCAM GigaStudio and Emagic EXS24
• Available in two editions, First Edition and Pro Edition
• Further editions on hard disk
*******• VIP – Vienna Innovation Program, special upgrade and cross-grade benefits. Buy now and become automatically enrolled in the Vienna Innovation Program!**********

There is nothing on that page that says "Recorded in..... **delievered in 16bit 44.1khz**" or that contradicts this bullet point in any way.

If you're in the world of these products and you make them, maybe it's obvious to you that such a format wouldn't be realistic. But when I bought them I really didn't know that and I honestly expected 24bit 96k with the ability to downsamples if necessary. Anyway, I accepted with some disappointment the reality that I should have researched more but I still think this is misleading advertising, albeit probably unintentional on part of ilio, since the VSL site does say clearly that the samples are 16bit.

I highlighted the upgrade mention since it is fairly prominent in advertising and is relevant to this thread.

mobius said we've been using the product for longer so should rightly pay more. Nobody is arguing that the new product is certainly worth paying for well and truly but what we are arguing is that the upgrade path is a bit of a suck in really in that you have to fork out for the full price of the new product including all the samples you already loyally and royally paid for (ok it's a royal product) and then you get the extras at the discount. Clearly, VSL would have much better relations with their existing customers if they did the right thing by us and gave us the mostly existing material at an upgrade path price, and the new extended material at the full price - does everyone agree that would make more sense and would be inline with the majority of expectations? So why don't they do it? It seems a bit silly.

Miklos.

As I understand it we're not only getting a 24 bit version and the instrument player - but also more than double the amount of samples and all reprogrammed. Assuming the articulation lists shown for Solo Strings and Chamber strings are listing the standard SC. - Or do I get it all wrong?

Still I think its kind of backward not to have an VIP discount for the initial upgrade from pro Ed to SC std.

Now I just wonder what the hell will be in the ext. version to match the price tag of +5k Eur ? If there's 800000 samples in the std. version, there must be at least a similar amount in the extension - what are they:
Violin played with a golf club? - 800000 samples of a much anticipated
Alpenhorn quartet? [:D]

Anyway, if pro Ed users are getting all this new content for peanuts
it might be a better bargain than to have a small discount on the std. SC and then afterwards have to pay full price for the ext.SC.

just a thought

I've only just recently bit the bullet and purchased the Pro Edition Orchestral Cube (just before the whole Symphonic Cube announcement started) and I have to say that the lack of a VIP upgrade on the standard edition of the Vienna Instruments does seem pretty disappointing. Afterall, they are mostly the same samples we're paying for, regardless if VSL downsampled them to 44khz/16bit in the Orchestral Cube / Horizon series. That, to me, is not what I was led to believe the 'VIP' policy was all about.

Basically, I now wish I hadn't purchased the Orchestral Cube. At the time it cost £2127. Even after I just purchase the Standard VI I will have spent £4727, a lot more than if I had just purchased the Extended VI on its own. Must feel even worse for people who have shelled out considerable money on much of the Horizon series that is included in VI (something I was considering, but am now glad I didn't).