Production of albums using VSL samples

[Stephen W. Beatty]

The VSL samples when used to voice original compostions and recorded to CD, actually mirror the traditional paradigm of composer > composition>
performance by players > recorded > produce a CD. I would be interested in listening to some of the CD's that people who participate in this forum have produced using the VSL samples. If you would post where the CD could be purchased and the type of music I will try to obtain it.
Regards,
Stephen W. Beatty

[Dietz]

One example of many and just about to be released:

-> http://www.couchrecords.com/madita/

Produced by Vlado dZiahn from dZihan & Kamien, Vienna Symphonic Library strings and brass arranged and programmed by Christian Kardeis. Short cuts of each song are available on the site. The style is pretty hard to describe - a little bit Björk-ish, maybe, but with both an oriental and jazzy influence.

An album I was heavily involved with was "This Is The Slow Club" - timeless standards in a new musical context:

-> http://www.serious-entertainment.com/e_slow_audio.html

... "Estate" relies on our strings a lot (there is a RealAudio stream to listen to it).

There are some other, "official" productions listed under "Projects" on our site, too.

-> http://vsl.co.at/en-us/65/276/143.vsl

[hermitage59]

As a follow on to this Dietz,

What's the position with recording for public purchase using VSL as a licensed product?

If i write a symphony, perform and record it using VSL, and release that symphony on CD, where does the relationship with VSL stop or start, and what sort of acknowledgements need to be made?
Is there some sort of permission required at any stage?

Regards,

Alex.

[Dietz]

That's not directly my business, Alex, but as far as I can say, you don't need permission or anything from our side - provided that you are a legitimate user, of course [;)]

I think we have a passage in our EULA where we ask you to give our Library credit in the liner notes; all that is something our marketing people will answer, I'd say.

[William]

Steven,

A couple examples I know of ...

www.cdbaby.com/cd/kersten

www.cdbaby.com/cd/kersten2

[Stephen W. Beatty]

Thanks to all for the audio references. I listened to each one of them and they are wonderful.
The only stand alone album that uses VSL samples exclusively seems to be the William Kersten album which uses full sections of instruments. The Maxwell clip was a live recording and apparently he used the VSL samples to help in the compostion.
Some seem to be the finished live sound track which had been demoed using VSL Samples.
I was hoping to hear some brave soul that had used the solo VSL instruments in the quartet, quintet, or small chamber setting to produce a straight recording. Having worked in this area there are aural problems at least to my ear with the resulting recordings. For example:Horizon solo strings, Vln 1, solo violin all, Vln 2 solo violin all copy, vla, solo viola all, and Vcl , solo cello all. Using these voices compose a traditional string quartet. Ok, use the performance tools to enhance the legato passages, and repetition tool to avoid the unrealistic stacato sounds. Add DSP to create a room ambience. Adjust velocities to avoid overly bright notes. The mix as good as it may sound still sounds compartmentalized. ie. four different string instruments that don't quite merge into a single sound at a particular instance or delta t (time) of the composition.
This is not intended to be negative but rather a question that I am trying to answer.
It is like string quartet players setting in four separate glass boxes which allow them to see each other , but the sound from each instrument has its own track which are mixed together later. Is it possible there is a resonance signal generated secondarily from the wooden instruments playing in close proximity that gives a live string quartet its "live" sound??? I am sure this "absence" is quantifiable/measurable and can be added as a sample, its knowing what and how to measure the effect.
This "absence" is not as noticable when the music is played by a section of the same stringed instruments. Many of the examples on the web sites using string sections demonstrate this effect.
Has anyone one else noticed this effect or is this just "one hand clapping"
Regards,
Stephen W. Beatty

[William]

Stephen,

I should be more low key about this I suppose... but I've recently heard exactly what you're talking about done amazingly well.

[Stephen W. Beatty]

Thanks William.

Stephen

[PolarBear]

You should perhaps visit Beat's homepage http://www.beat-kaufmann.com/ for some great string arrangements. Not exactly a production album, but I don't know why you'd want to limit you here. [;)]

[lgrohn]

My Java applet generates music from pictures in a few seconds. I could create services on Internet or on mobile phones where pictures given or taken (mobile) by the users are transformed to music making it possible to listen the pieces immediately. Could I do that without paying anything to produces of SW instruments? That would mean that anybody in the world could exploit VSL or whatever without paying anything to VSL.

[William]

What?

[hermitage59]

Snap.

[lgrohn]

@William said:

What?

So what is the matter that you don't understand in this case?

[irvind]

You have a java applet that makes music from pictures..? That sounds interesting, fair enough.

But what does that have to do with VSL?

And the current thread which is to do with released cd's of music produced using VSL?

[Stephen W. Beatty]

Thanks Polar Bear for the Kaufmann reference. His rendering of the Partita in E is close to the effect I am trying to achieve for solo strings. His rendering of Ombra mai fu is also a beautifully rendered realization. He provides a block diagram of how he created the string sounds. To create front to back orchestral depth he assigned the solo instruments to a channel with no effects which creates the sensation of a near position, section instruments vln 1 , vcl, were assigned to a middle distance and section instruments 2nd vln, vla, and Cb were assigned to a far distance. These three separate channels were routed to a fourth channel which created the overall performance hall space. Although the composition calls for a string quartet the sound was created by voicing the parts using solo instruments combined with chamber strings and in some cases adding a full section of violins. The result is stunning!
The lesson here is not to be so literal in producing sounds. If your writing a string quartet , you don't have to use solo strings. You may get a better rendition layering the instruments and placing them in various distances from the listener. This seems to create the effect I am listening for. I would appreciate any comments on these types of proceedures.
Regards,
Stephen W. Beatty

[lgrohn]

@irvind said:

You have a java applet that makes music from pictures..? That sounds interesting, fair enough.

But what does that have to do with VSL?

And the current thread which is to do with released cd's of music produced using VSL?

Much. Nowadays music is distributed both via CDs and Internet. Its will be similar when distributed music played with software instruments. Now only in the case of VSL etc. and my example people ccould trigger the generation of music by themselves and the midi file could be played by VSL etc. situated in some servers. When thousands of people will be using VSL etc. that way without bying VSL is is OK? How complete is this analog between CD and online interactive distribution?

But OK. I will start a new thread...

[William]

lgrohn,

If such a thing happens, then any software provider will copy-protect the sh** out of their product and prevent people from using it free, or they will go out of business.


Stephen,

On the topic I think various layering techniques can be used as you mentioned, but also a strictly realistic, note-for-note representation of a string quartet. I have a very specific reason for saying that, which will be clear in a short time. People should not make any judgements about this topic until that time has passed, because what I am refering to is an unprecedented performance of exactly the kind of thing you are talking about. It is one of the best things - maybe the best - I have ever heard in MIDI and will soon be featured here. It has got me very excited as a matter of fact (if that wasn't obvious already).

[lgrohn]

@William said:

lgrohn,

If such a thing happens, then any software provider will copy-protect the sh** out of their product and prevent people from using it free, or they will go out of business.

It will happen very soon. There is copy right already but if VSL can be used for CDs why not for interactive services. The midi file can be generated from pictures in a few seconds and then stream via VLS or bounced and send as a mp3 file.

[hermitage59]

Lgrohn,

It's a bleak and unwelcoming picture you see. Music produced from pictures by computer with a humans only interaction being pushing the button marked go.
Mobile phone takes picture, and adds music sourced from a server, to produce random tones. Do i have this right? This is your concept of music? A composer is actually a software engineer, and when he's built this software you determinedly keep coming back to, he's then out of a job? Are you so immeresed in this 'metareality' of yours that you don't enjoy playing the piano, or listening to live musicians perform 'artifacts' from the past?
Don't you have someone so important to you, that you're inspired to write beautiful songs, or stirring melodies for?
And this metareality of yours. does it include other people, or are we all to stay apart, no longer watching an event together, but take a picture, press the inhuman button, and instant compositional gratification, or so you would have us believe, as you've so persistently and determinedly written.
We've all thought of different ways of producing music and many have tried in the past and present to automate part of the process.
But the Orwellian picture you describe, of taking humans out of the process and giving the sum total of mans potential for creativity to a computer (in a mobile phone) is not a metareality as you've so immersed yourself in, but an unreality more akin to a machine world devoid of emotion, or human aspiration.
I feel deeply sorry for you to be so 'musically' determined to detach yourself from the wonderful flaws and imperfections of that we call humanity.

Alex.

[weslldeckers]

A computer can NEVER ever be creative. Artificial intelligence will remain artificial.
I'm creative and my output is (seemingly) as random as the outcome of the computer. But with the difference that I have the intention and urgent 'drive' to create something so good it pales everything else I've done in comparison. It's that 'kick' or 'high' of creation and discovery that a computer can never have.