Analysis of Art

[Horse Opera]

I've come across quite a dilemma recently. A couple weeks ago I asked about the value of writing a string quartet before attempting a larger arrangement. Through a series of replies I learned about the greatness of part writing. Which really changed my approach to writing in a tremendous way (I am by nature an autodidact and haved vowed to stay away from institutions for as long as possible, hence my ignorance on such seemingly common ideas.) But now when I listen to a piece of music, I find myself trying to separate the parts, which instruments are playing what and so on. The problem I have with this is, it is DESTROYING my ability to listen to music the way I used to.

Before, I would hear a piece of music and I either liked it or I didn't. I never had too much of an idea why, and I never cared to find out. I felt that it might ruin the experience if I thought about it too much and broke it down into little puzzle pieces. To me, art should be a visceral experience. When I hear a piece of music that I connect with, it can border on being in a state of euphoric (or melancholy) meditation. And I find that I'm starting to lose that, because my newly developed instict is to figure out what and how the composer did what they did.

So my question is, do any of you have this same problem? If so, how did you remedy it? Do you guys have two sets of ears, one for the composer and one for the listener?

Thanks in advance,

-BW

[Dietz]

This is about the same phenomenon I encountered when I was young and just grabbing the idea of what _mixing_ is all about. [[:|]] I simply couldn't listen to music anymore, all I heard was about sound, balances, effects and so on.

It took me quite some time to learn to switch deliberately between analytical and "holistic" listening ... but in the end, I think I'm able to hear more today than ever before. So don't despair ... [;)]

[William]

I think that's a good thing that has happened to you, and shows your dedication and interest. In my case, I seem oblivious to things I hear, and only absorb them (assuming I do at all) subconsciously. But then I always tended to go through life subconsciously.

[dpcon]

Yes that principle applies to all endeavors. If you wanted to build houses than looking at a house would never be the same. Keep in mind you will also be enjoying music more than you ever have before at some point. Now you will here both the independant parts and the whole instead of just the whole.

It's not a bad curse to have.

[weslldeckers]

I think you'll get over it eventually, Horse Opera. As soon as your skill(s) have become better.

I work in the visual media, and altough I can watch any tv show, drama series or feature film for analisys... I can still let me drag into it if it's good enough.

I certainly wouldn't worry you'll never be able to listen to music as you once did... since you're already to late for that!! [[;)]]

[Horse Opera]

Yeah, I'm sure this is just a phase. Actually I think I'm overreacting, because I've been listening to Schubert's later symphonies this morning and even though I'm still separating everything, it's actually not a bad thing because I'm learning to just listen differently. I'm hearing things I never heard before, so it may not be so bad afterall. Just being a tad melodramatic as per usual!

I used to listen to nothing but rock and roll, and it's somewhat similiar. RNR is intrinsically visceral, and while it's easy to simply listen to a song as a whole, it isn't too difficult to listen to just the bass, or just the guitar or drums, etc. So I suppose I just need to get used to hearing classical music in the same way.

-BW

[PaulR]

@Horse Opera said:

So my question is, do any of you have this same problem? If so, how did you remedy it? Do you guys have two sets of ears, one for the composer and one for the listener?
Thanks in advance,
-BW

It's sometimes a massive problem - and then you get accused of all sorts of things by the proles.

With films, it's become easier, because let's face it - if it's a good film the score can almost be like a good football referee - you don't notice it per se - it just works to make the overall film work the way it's meant to.

[hermitage59]

BW,
if you take a little time out and think about it, you're actually making a lot of progress.
You said yourself it was easy to separate voices when listening to rock. What was the number of voices? 4? 5? And of course the 'united voice', that separate entity that is the ever fluctuating sum of all the voices.
The quartet exercise is the same number of voices, just different textures.
You've had a musical journey mainly in Rock, yes? So the 4 orchestral voices are new sound colours and it will take a little while to 'get used' to them. As you listen to more and more music of this type, your ears, subject to training like any other sense, will learn, and as you concentrate, you'll be able to switch from a 'collective' sound to one of closer analysis. And as everyone's written in reply, it's something we all go through, and a part of the musical journey.
Now it's a matter of mental focus. Why don't you listen twice? The first time as a collective, the second as tuning into the parts more individually.

Congratulations, you're getting on with it, and learning much.

Alex.

[PolarBear]

I find the observation itself of the process I'm taking with this interesting. As a player of a real instrument from early age on I might have taken the first step at a time I didn't notice it, this means practice, practice, practice. Listen critical to your own work, analyze what you did, and practice to do it better, i.e. in most cases like someone else wanted it to be. Seperate the faulty things from the working ones. It's more complex the more voices come in, and in an orchestra setting the composer is at best listening to everything going on. However I found out that this way also some beauty can be discovered, a certain line may just work and sound nice to me because of the two or three celesta twinkles I wouldn't even have noticed not listening critical... If I re-listen the piece I spot it for that beauty, again and unintentionally.

I also found it's very different in which state of mind, in which environment you are listening. I almost can't do anything else when listening with headphones, because I'm very concentrated on the music. I'm very critical with music out of my monitors. It's usually only some music that's coming out of the car stereo. Maybe this is a bit too much of a generalization and of course this is also higly depending on the material that is playing. It's also a very different thing to have a soundtrack with or withohut picture - the effects come out with picture, the structure without to me...

Anyways, after a while you simply turn off the critical mode. You aren't supercritical anymore with what's your friend shouting at you knowing her or him well for years either... Adaption!
PolarBear

[jc5]

This is a more or less regular phenomenon - there comes a point where you 'pass through the looking glass' so to speak, and things will never be the same as before. You may no longer find as much enjoyment in some music as you once did - in a sense you may have grown beyond it and what it has to offer. But the pieces that do move you... it is on a different level. Never be afraid to move to the next level!

[PaulR]

@jc5 said:

This is a more or less regular phenomenon - there comes a point where you 'pass through the looking glass' so to speak, and things will never be the same as before. You may no longer find as much enjoyment in some music as you once did - in a sense you may have grown beyond it and what it has to offer. But the pieces that do move you... it is on a different level. Never be afraid to move to the next level!

That is very true in some ways and also quite sad. It's a problem, especially when you talk to non musicians about what their idea of great is and why you have to unload and tell them why it's not.

It's an age of innocence thing.

[William]

Hmm... I just don't have this happen. When I hear music I lapse into an altered state of consciousness. And I was definitely kicked out of the "Age of Innocence" some time ago. [[;)]]

However I definitely do this sort of thing with film watching.

For example, the difference between the Japanese and American "The Ring." It drives me crazy, how people just don't notice any difference between the two. The original is an excellent, consistently fritghtening and original ghost story, but the remake is a slick and self-defeating paint-by-numbers copy that shoots itself in the foot halfway through. NOBODY SEES THIS! They all say in bland, complacent terms, "Oh yeah, that was pretty scary." In other words, all you have to do is be somewhere in the ball park of "pretty scary" and it's all the same to them. Whereas with someone like me who is obsessed with both ghost stories and film, one example is brilliant, the other worthless.

[hermitage59]

Bill, my sentiments exactly. The japanese version is the epitome of how suspense/ghost films SHOULD be made, with innuendo, subtlety, and the illusion of 'what might be around the next corner.' I thoroughly enjoyed the japanese version, and have watched it many times. Brilliant film.

The remake is a sad parody, and more reminiscent of a Disney parable, than a scary movie. I got half way through it, and went to watch grass grow, as that certainly held greater suspense. Why is it that remakes must be so bloody obvious? Where is the 'scare factor' in telegraphing to the audience every minute in advance. Are the filmakers scared of being sued, in case one of the audience has a heart attack?
Compared to the original, the remake is complete crap.

I feel a lot better now, although sadly the HD is finally dead, and i'm sifting through the ashes to see what if anything is worth saving.

Regards to you all, and if you young composers, eager to set your mark, end up writing for a remake like the 'Warm and fuzzy Ring' i've just been railing at, for god sake make the music interesting, leave out the choirs, and warm fuzzy chords, and think Hermann.
Less is more.
It's a pity the remakers of the ring, or to give it a more fitting title
'Bambi watches television after 8pm', didn't understand the lesson.

Alex.

[[:|]]

[stephank]

I know your state mind very well.

I remember when it started for me. It was amazing. Let some time pass and you will see, that you will come back to hear the music.

At the moment you are maybe to focussed on the parts and how they are build. But you will get more and more routine in analyzing these things, so it will work automatically and you will come back to the music.

But you will come back to the music on a more matured level. I promis you, you will love it.

Best regards, Stephan