Solart couldn't agree more!

I have manage to get true VSL in a way but I still have a lot of q:s.

Its amazing that there isn't a comprehensive manual that gives examples of how to use the library. There are many programming issues that really need explanation. I have gone true most of herbs tutorial examples and I'm sorry to say they where not very helpful. I dont mean to be rude but they dont explain how to use the program that well......sorry herb......

I am what you could call professional (I am a music professor……..) so instrumentally a have some knowledge, if i hadn't I would be totaly lost. Why make such a wonderful library and no manual?

The performer tools manual is okay in a way…………………but leaves MUCH to ask for.

I will make a manual for the students at the academy where I teach. Maybe I put that on the Internett. The problem is that I think Im missing something.............

Hi yoyfish! Hi Solart! Hi Iwan! Hi all!

I completely understand your input! Please give me some hints, on what exactly was hard to learn, especially with the Alternation Mode and the Legato Mode. How DID you learn more about those modes?

We are working on a tutorial, that on the one hand explains how the tool works and how to trick around with it, and on the other hand goes into detail with the Repetition Mode (as it seems to be the most coplex mode).

@Another User said:

The performer tools manual is okay in a way…………………but leaves MUCH to ask for.

yoyfish, it would be a great help for me, if you could point out the parts of the Performance Tool Manual that remain unclear to you. I will be happy to help you.

Thanks for your patience and understanding, we will do our best to provide you with more information and more examples of what can be achieved with the Performance Tool as soon as possible.

Best, Paul

Oh come on now -

Do you expect the manufacture of your automobile to teach you how to drive?

Put simply VSL (and as excellent as it is) is just another sampler library. It behaves as I expect it to. I load a sample hit the keys and hear the sounds.

As with any computer based technology the working methodology of individual users (and their hardware/software set-ups) will differ considerably.

Can you imagine the work load of producing tutorial guides for every conceivable set-up and then look at Orchestration and Arranging techniques and methods.

In reality we the members of this forum should provide the tutorials and the tips/pitfalls etc. (and by and large we do).

The VSL Library is better prepared than anything else I have seen. The instruments are correctly within their ranges. The Manuals are clear and concise and really easy to navigate through. People coming from a pure Synthesis background will need to adjust to this. Strings don’t go on forever - flutes don’t expend two octaves beyond their normal range etc.

Basic Guide - (How I work)

WRITE the music (or use something already composed)
[if you are writing to Film/Video you will need to develop a good vocabulary]

DO a basic arrangement and score the key parts

ORCHESTRATE the piece (Go to whatever depth you need to)

FIRE up your Sequencing/Audio package

LOAD up your sampler (Read through the Library Manual to fine tune the selection.)

SELECT the appropriate voice or voices. Its a good idea to review the sample and play it from a keyboard. Open up the sampler edit page and look at how it has been mapped - get a general feel for it as an INSTRUMENT.

NOTE - bear in mind you may have to layer some samples and you may have to adjust things like pitch and velocity - I think this is an area a lot of VSL and general sampler users go wrong. If you are working with the Basic sets you need to think about Velocity and Key Switches. To keep your score pure you may need to overlay a second track with key switches. (This is not specific to VSL - but Herb has covered it)

Try to work in Timbre Sets - One of the things I constantly find with Computer Composers/Arrangers is that they imagine the whole sound and do not break this down fine enough to work to get tone colours correct. This and iterative process - you may need to go around a few times. Its worth doing as it makes the next step so much easier.

MIX down and Master (Nightmare for a lot of people and really a whole different subject)

PRINT and Publish

Perhaps there should be a warning note on the side of the package along the lines of:

USERS are expected to have a sound knowledge of Midi, Sampling, Digital Audio Workstation set-ups & methodology and Mixing & Mastering techniques.

What's next? -'Hey Herb will you provide me with some Tutorials on how to compose'!

- This has been written with the best intentions in mind - apologies in advance to those who think I am wrong about this.

[:D] hehe. You are right, but i'ts allways hard in the beginning. You can't start composing right away because you are going to bump into things you have to ask a question about...

Like me, I'm going to overthread this forum when I buy opus 1 (hopefully soon)

yoyfish, Peter A's advice is very good, because the Basic All programs have...well, basic versions of all the others. You should also start by taking one instrument and loading every articulation to get a feel for how the library works. Once you've done that, you'll understand the others, since it's generally consistent enough that you can replace, say, a flute with a violin without changing the MIDI data.

After that you can load some of the performance instruments and see how they work. The Alternation Tool is very obvious, since it just alternates between two articulations, and the Performance Legatos are quite easy too (and amazing). That leaves the Repetition Tool, which I suggest you save for last.

But I also say that the first company to provide pop-up explanations as you drag the mouse over programs in the list gets the Nobel Sampling Prize.

(That was a comment that got excised from my review due to the amount of space available.)

To Tattie - thanks for the explanation of your creative process (a bit off topic and unsolicited, btw). please don't assume that because certain users of this program have questions about it's functionality that we are musical or professional neophites and are somehow deserving of your contempt.

i agree that the library is laid out in a concise and intellegent manner -
i agree that the samples are wonderfully recorded and executed -

Please let me try to clarify what it is that I am looking for (in terms of a tutorial) that was not included in the program I purchased for over $5000 USD:

I'm not asking (as tattie puts it) how to "load a sample, hit a key and hear sounds" - nor am asking for a lesson on orchestrating and arranging or especially composing. I don't need a GIGA or EXS lesson.

What sold me on this program was the demos that I heard on this web site. What would be wonderfully helpful would be a tutorial that takes the user step by step thru the process of programming such a piece (in EXS and GIGA)- take Strauss "Blue Danube Waltz" for example, and go step by step thru Herb's process in programming this jem. Would this not be a tremendous resource and an insite into how the developer of this program intends it to be used? Not to mention very helpful as a starting point for new users. I would think it would be in the best interests of the developers of VSL to have a highly educated a user base, ulitlzing the program to it's maximum capacity. When you hear these demos, you think "I want to do that!!!" - my question is... How do you do that?? Not how Strauss did it (I have the score) not how a sequencer and midi work, but what choices were made by the programmer in terms of the sample selection and tools used etc. Did he use only Cube sounds, only performance set sounds??? What choices did were made as he programmed?

Maybe this a completely niave wish, but after a few weeks of working with VSL and trying to find my own way, I'm still wondering "How did they do that!" To me this information should not fall under the domain of "artistic mystery". I'm sure over time I will develop a working method that gives good results. But I will never know if there are better, easier or more efficient ways to work, and I definately won't be able to use VSL effectively for my current project (the reason I bought VSL), which is terribly disappointing.

if the developers can provide detailed programming insite into how to simulate live orchestras most effectively, please share this information with your customers.

I expected that my post would touch a raw nerve or two BUT I strongly object to any notion that I am being contemptible on this subject or to any particular person.

By and large the majority of my posts on this forum (and others) are aimed at sharing information – as I did in my last post on this thread.

If my explanation of how I work were not helpful to you then you have every right to reject them and find your own. And that post was not that off topic (or unsolicited) it was a simple overview and a basic tutorial, which was asked for in the first post of this thread. And it contains the first ‘key’ on how to use VSL.

What your purchased was not a programme or an application – you purchased a Sample Library. Not unlike going to you local artists’ store and buying a paint box and a few brushes. (We are going to be at loggerheads over this particular issue – I cannot fathom how any one could spend US$5000 on a library without testing its usefulness and whether or not they could read it).

VSL have already gone far beyond what you get as collateral information with this Library and I am sure we will see more in the future.

By way of a further tutorial or series of pointers and as a friendly gesture:
(This may seem long-winded but it should kick start you in to using VSL – note I use EXS so you may have to adapt for Giga or other sampler and sequencer)


1. Make Notes of everything you do – this will build as a personal log.

2. Use a fairly simple score in the first instance and something you are very familiar with – something you can carry in your head without having to refer constantly to the score. (I used the demo Film Soundtrack Score from Sibelius, as this is rich in timbres and is a good arrangement)

3. Isolate one instrument – (Extract the stave and load this as a midi track on your sequencer) – Determine the strongest articulation and select an instance of EXS and select a VSL Voice that best matches that articulation. Remember this will probably sound wrong at this stage – resist the urge to tweak things – concentrate on getting it mostly right.

4. Using your sequencer MARKERS mark out on the track where the EXS is a near or perfect match – At first this will be an iterative process but in time you will build up your own map of the library and selecting the right voice will become second nature.

5. Using your sequencers EXTRACT function pull out the notes between the markers and make a new track. Now what you can do is look at the Dynamics and make adjustments (as required) make changes in note velocity and perhaps even note timing to get the phrasing right. Most midi files – even those from professional houses are Step Recorded and can be very tight – you may need to loosen them up a little.

6. When you are ‘near’ happy lock the track. It can get a little busy in your Sequencers arrange window so consider using a track colour scheme that tells you what stage any particular track is. I use the rainbow colours with Red being raw and Indigo as perfect.

7. Look at what remains and determine the next dominant articulation and carry out the same process. What you will end up with is a number of tracks (and sampler instances) that matches what the score calls for. Note mostly I end up with 4 or 5 tracks.

8. Now do the same for the other instruments.

part 2 to follow -----

Part 2 ----

Lets expand this out a little – What we have done, by the time we get to this point is extracted the articulations and assigned the correct voice to those articulations and put in or adjusted the dynamics. It may seem that you have far too many tracks – well this can really help in the mixing etc.

When you score your own work this will be second nature – you will, most likely, assign a different track for each articulation. The key is understanding the Orchestration and Arranging process. Further note – a lot of Classical Midi files are not instantly suitable for use with VSL – remember most of these midi files have been produced with multi timbral synth boxes in mind.

Notes on the Performance Tools, these are still a little buggy and the VSL Team are perfecting these daily. I would suggest that VSL beginners set them aside and understand the fundamentals first.

However - If you have a passage that has fast changes (or repeating patterns) in articulation you could consider using the Articulation Tool. Just think of this as a set of notation instructions you are giving the performer.

The beauty of the Articulation Tool is it allows you to build up your own Library of ornaments.

I am happy to try and answer further questions (within the confines of the time I have available) - I dont consider myself an Expert User!

tattie

Tattie,

You write such intelligent, generous, kind, and original posts. The insightful things you think of to say always surprise me, and the surprise always makes me smile. Thanks for all the time you've invested contributing at VSL -- your points are consistently well taken. Your lucid, unconfused style is altogether too rare in this industry.

My thanks and compliments -- dot

Hi guys

Thanks for all replies (even if some where a bit "stiff" [:)]

To Paul, I’m writing this tutorial that I thing VSL should have provided [:)]
I will publish it for free. I will post it here when it’s in the beta stage
It will walk you true most of the basics. It will be written for the composition studens at the academy where im teaching, so the music exaples may be "out of tune" [:)]

I thought this one what funny
“Do you expect the manufacture of your automobile to teach you how to drive?”

VSL costs three times as much as my car……..And my car has a pretty comprehensive manual of how to operate it (it’s a Volvo….). The car manufacture doesn’t have to learn me how to drive
I HAVE to take driving lessons and then go true a test…….[:)]
Haven’t seen any mandatory schools for VSL yet [:)].

I feel that even if VSL operates as any other sample library the performance tools is really quite new. And the libraray is huge.....When investing as much money as we all have done a basic “walk thru” manual is hardly asking to much…..?

Anyhowe im in the process of writing it…………………….

@Solart said:

What sold me on this program was the demos that I heard on this web site. What would be wonderfully helpful would be a tutorial that takes the user step by step thru the process of programming such a piece (in EXS and GIGA)- take Strauss "Blue Danube Waltz" for example, and go step by step thru Herb's process in programming this jem. Would this not be a tremendous resource and an insite into how the developer of this program intends it to be used? Not to mention very helpful as a starting point for new users. I would think it would be in the best interests of the developers of VSL to have a highly educated a user base, ulitlzing the program to it's maximum capacity. When you hear these demos, you think "I want to do that!!!" - my question is... How do you do that?? Not how Strauss did it (I have the score) not how a sequencer and midi work, but what choices were made by the programmer in terms of the sample selection and tools used etc. Did he use only Cube sounds, only performance set sounds??? What choices did were made as he programmed?

Maybe this a completely niave wish, ....

Solar,


Yes, i think it is in some way. because you do not want to buy only the library but a complete course on how programming as perfect as Herb or other experts in this field. VSL is more a musical instrument as a piece of software; If you buy a violin the manual which will make it possible to play as well as Izthak Perlman is not included. Personally I think it is very kind from people like Herb to give us some hints with is MIDI file samples, which have actually, at least for me, opened the way and are explicit in showing the concept of VSL. IMO, I do not see what could actually be explained more, apart of the repetition performance tool, which can be tricky to use. But I concede that I also do not read software manuals, so I am maybe used to find out things by myself.

Maybe some of the experts could write "VSL for dummies",(this is not meant to be an insult, but only a link to Windows etc for dummies) but personally I do prefer Herb and his team to concentrate on expanding the library instead of writing a 800 page manual in order to explain that for a crescendo, you may will have to use a cre sample....Also on the forum it would be possible to get some more info about how to use the library in relation to music, which should have more importance in this place.

Iwan

"Maybe this a completely niave wish, but after a few weeks of working with VSL and trying to find my own way, I'm still wondering "How did they do that!""

I'm with you on this one. This would be a great help. I'm still looking through the site to find more tutorials/help than there was in the (PDF) manual. Another suggestion would be to make clear in the packaged product that the printed material there is not the full manual: it took me a while to realize I had to download the performance tool and manuals online and that the instructions were there. I do appreciate the print materials though, don't get me wrong -- too many places only give out PDFs these days and it's great to have the print reference, not to mention the clearly organized sample names.

The one thing I really still don't "get," that's still in the basics category and not in the "how did they do that" category, is the repetition tool. Everyone on this thread seems to agree that's a tricky bit, but then how did those of you who learned it, learn it? I spent all day yesterday trying to set up a repetition pattern without success, though I did finally manage to get the one in the performance manual (PDF) tutorial to work out. Any tips for this tool?