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  • Help getting started with Opus 1

    I am a pianist who bought Opus 1 almost a year ago to reinforce my compisitions. I am delighted with the quality of VSL but my ability to get the right sound from Opus 1 has been a struggle.

    I am looking for a flowing, sweet sound. I have have experimented with patch combinations, reverbs, delays and Logic's Space Designer. I can not seem to get the results that I a here from many of the demos provided by the members here.

    I am not expecting to be taught orchestral composition but could use some help getting a starting point with patches and effect presets within Logic?

    I am using the EXS24 under Logic 6 Pro 6.4.3.

    Any insight or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
    -Lamont

  • Best and easiest thing is to just post a snippet of what you´re doing. Otherwise it´s just wild guessing around.

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    @lamontg said:

    I am looking for a flowing, sweet sound. I have have experimented with patch combinations, reverbs, delays and Logic's Space Designer. I am not expecting to be taught orchestral composition but could use some help getting a starting point with patches and effect presets within Logic?

    I am using the EXS24 under Logic 6 Pro 6.4.3.

    Any insight or pointers would be greatly appreciated.
    -Lamont



    Hey Lamont -how you doing? Lookout Mountain still there? [:D]

    What have you got in mind buddy? I have the same setup as you only First Ed -not Opus 1, but I guess they are similar in a lot of ways.

    Paul

  • Yet it sounds you are looking for some orchestration tips, but it's hard to give general tips out on that without knowing where you're style should be heading. You should specify if you like hints towards composition and/or mixing, and if you can't post a piece how far you achieved your sound yet it might be helpful to give some references to composers outside that did something in that vein.

    All the best,
    PolarBear

  • Hello Paul,
    Yes, Lookout Mountain is still here but I am in the northern corner of Tennessee, almost Virginia -- just minutes away from the Blue Ridge Mountains.

    In general I feel as though I'm not getting it. I can tell that Opus 1 probably has most of what I am looking for but do not know how to get there.

    Up to now I have been using synth-based strings to support my piano music and was very excited about Opus 1 as a first stepping stone to working with real string libraries. So I guess the sound I am looking for would be described as legato, flowing, smooth and sweet. I very humbly submit the following link to give you an idea of my music... http:\\\\www.meadowsuite.com

    Tracks 2, 3, 4, 5, 8, 12, would be good examples of why I am looking for real strings to replace my synth strings.

    I am somewhat apprehensive to share this link as I can tell that most of the folks in this forum are real composers and musicians. I am simply an engineer of 20+ years trying now to pursue my passion for music. The music I have been composing has been doing well with yoga instructors and massage therapists, etc. -- however, real musicians can tell that I have quite a way to go to be serious at this.

    As far as Opus 1, I tried to avoid using any of the string ensemble patches and have been working from each of the other libraries... VI, VA, VC, etc.

    I am trying to start with something simple like the VI-14L_mV_sus. A legato patch with some vibrato seemed like a good starting point. I realize that the samples are very close mic'ed, however, I cannot seem to get the environment right. I have tried different environments with Space Designer, adding 2nd instances of the same patch using samples delays, reverbs, etc. However, I feel like instead of getting a smooth flowing sound, I am getting something that sounds like a plow pulled through mud.

    I wanted to get the environment right before I began layering other patches but finally tried layering multiple patches to get what I was looking for -- but to no avail.

    You mentioned that you are also using Logic 6 Pro. Might you be willing to share a basic setup that has worked for you? I feel as though I am wasting the beautiful work that went into this wonderful library.

    Any pointers would be welcomed.
    Warm regards from the mountains of Tennessee,
    -Lamont

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    last edited

    @lamontg said:

    Hello Paul,
    Yes, Lookout Mountain is still here but I am in the northern corner of Tennessee, almost Virginia -- just minutes away from the Blue Ridge Mountains. Any pointers would be welcomed.
    Warm regards from the mountains of Tennessee,
    -Lamont


    Hi Lamont - now you're just trying to make me jealous! [:D]

    I listened to all the tracks that you requested and for what it' s worth from me, track 2 is a bit of a clue. I realise you're a sensitive soul Lamont so no worries about anything like real composers or musicians. Don't really understand what that means actually. Fun and enjoyment is always the main criteria for me too.

    Very relaxing music and a nice genre to follow btw.

    The only thing maybe, is that the string lines, albeit something like a Kurzweil maybe, are quite high in the register and sound a little thin.

    Although in track 2 there is more in the way of orchestration. This may be the issue rather than choice of patches - or at least partly. A lot of the string lines are sort of pads and this, I find, quite difficult to do with orchestral samples. because basically you're holding down a note or notes for quite a period of time. Contrarily, choosing a VSL patch and holding down a chord doesn't work for me either, so it then gets difficult - and even more difficult to explain.
    Others may do much better than I, I'm thinking.

    But splitting a chord up into string parts has got to be an idea you probably have already tried. For instance - a pad chord of D - G - A - D could be cellos, violas, second violins and first violins, with the correct ranges of these instruments adhered to. Then, maybe adding other colours, like horns, and woodwinds into the pad equation.
    Different instances of Space Designer i.e buss 1 buss 2 etc can be used to place the positional aspects of seperate instruments -not necessarily as an orchestra would set up. Whatever you like really -but certainly breathing space. Panning across the stereo image obviously.
    Do you get phasing problems when you use the same VSL patch btw?

    Real musicians tell you that you have a way to go? Oh yeah? I met a real musician once, but I think I got away with it. [:D]

    I would share anything musical you wanted Lamont, but I use First Ed with the perf set and Horizon series - this would not help with Opus 1. Also, I never use an orchestral template of any kind -always start everything from scratch. Maybe I have misunderstood your request and yes I use Logic 6.4 with Space Designer -but mostly Altiverb now. I don't think your'e wasting anything - I think it's maybe more an orchestration thing, which can easily be learned.

    Anyway, this is interesting and the others should come up with better ideas than I have - and less muddled also. [:)]

    Come back on anything Lamont, in case I've misunderstood anything, which I generally do. And nice talking with you again.

    Regards from the Moors of Devonshire

    PR

  • Hello Paul,
    Thank you for taking the time to listen to my tracks and to provide your comments. Your comments were both polite and kind. Encouragement by others in one's passion go a long way as it easy to find critics (or worse yet, those who have nothing to say at all). Thank you!

    Your were right on the mark with Kurzweil pads (SP88x and PC2R, mainly) -- you can see where I am wanting more. I have recently moved up to Synthogy Ivories and find my original recordings dull in comparison. I am hoping to learn to make the most of Opus 1 as well.

    From your comments, it sounds as though my learning issue is more with composition with Opus 1 rather than adjusting the environment. Example: my concern with the VI-14L_mV_sus patch sounding like a plow through mud is more an issue of layering the correct patches and notes spread across those patches?

    I agree that I have to break away from the notion of long sustained notes as is typical for pads. Any feed back on which Opus 1 patches work well together would be appreciated.

    I will try and work up a demo that people might comment on. However, I welcome any hints along the way.

    Thank you again for your thoughtful reply.
    Regards from the hills of Tennessee.
    -Lamont

  • Hi Lamont,

    That's no problem - this is what the forum is supposed to be for. No worries, although these are just my thoughts and others may have rather more valid points, based on differing styles of working.

    Anyway, MV sus patches means moderate vibrato right? I'm not sure for long pads that vibrato is all that good a choice. No vibrato may be worth a try. And also, instead of layering lots of the same instrument, this may be replaced and/or experimented with, by using the whole string choir as I previously mentioned. Not making all the notes starting exactly at the same time, or finishing at the same time. A bit like the way real players would be.

    There's nothing wrong with playing long notes as far as I'm concerned. Whatever you like and if it works -that's it. For ochestral style ambient sounding string lines, I would recommend maybe listening to some of Vaughn Williams works and taking a look at the scores if you can. Some very slow and great sounding strings that hardly apear to move. The orchestration will give you a good starting point on how to employ Opus 1 for this kind of sound.

    When I get a chance, I will just do some pad sounds using strings etc and whiz them over to you via email if you like, but at the moment I'm tied up with a John Barry soundalike piece which is a killer to get right. Soon though. But the bottom line is, pad sounds using orchestral samples have to be across the whole spectrum of strings -not just the violins or it will sound too thin against a piano in my view.

    Yes, I'm going to check out Ivory myself soon as I don't really have a piano sound really, believe it or not, and I understand Ivory is pretty good.

    If it's just a case of pads against a piano, you may at one point wish to look at Atmosphere and enhance it's sounds in a subtle way with Opus 1. But I would recommend studying a bit of orchestration and it's constituent relevant parts as previously mentioned.

    All the best Lamont
    from Baskerville Hall (somebody shut that dog up!)

    Paul

  • Yes, the Thomas Tallis is a good piece of Vaughn Williams to listen to for a rich ambient sound from strings. Though an extremely complex piece of masterful writing! Yo, Andy ! Whip up a mockup of that for us, would you? We'd like to hear it next week, say, Monday? O.K.? Thanks.

    Anyway I have some trouble with a lot of downloading so will wait for your regular demo but I agree that using less divisi on each part and simply writing five-to-seven note chords in the correct registers of the whole string ensemble would give you a good sound that is not so different in effect from a pad - though it would be musically more realistic. If you are simply trying to expand a piano part you could try the entire string ensemble patch - does Opus 1 have that? I have 1st Ed. so I don't know. Anyway if it does you could score very simply some sustains that would accomplish this. obviously increasing your reverb to a huge amount of ambience while allowing the piano to be closer would help with this sort of scoring. Also, using the mod wheel crossfade instruments would give you a smooth sustain and help with keeping the string scoring simple enough for you to concentrate on the piano part.