Folk Songs and Dances- Original Composition - Please comment

[mvanbebber]

This is an orchestral piece I have written over the last two weeks, and I would appreciate your comments on the composition and orchestration. All of the melodies are original, although they sound as if they could be British folk songs (I love British melodies and orchestral music in general). I tried to keep a bi-tonal (sometimes tri-tonal) feeling thoughout much of the piece.
Please remember that this is only a midi playback directly from Sibelius 3, so I'm not looking for comments about midi realization (unless I can do it in Sibelius 3 [:)] )
http://mvanbebber.myhosting.net/Folk%20Song%2010-131_2.mp3">http://mvanbebber.myhosting.net/Folk%20Song%2010-131_2.mp3

thanks for listening,
mvanbebber

[PaulR]

@mvanbebber said:

This is an orchestral piece I have written over the last two weeks, and I would appreciate your comments on the composition and orchestration. All of the melodies are original, although they sound as if they could be British folk songs (I love British melodies and orchestral music in general).
thanks for listening,
mvanbebber

First of all this is a fairly large download. If I didn't have broadband, I would imagine it would take some considerable time.

It's very difficult not to comment on the overall sound when listening to music. Some of the woodwind parts sound very good. Sometimes the piece reminded me of Civilization (the computer game).

This is going to sound harsh, but can't you play a lot of these parts into the computer using a keyboard?

Overall, I think there are some good ideas there, but the sound of some of it is leaving a lot to be desired at this stage. Which library did you use?

Good ideas though.

[mvanbebber]

Paul-
Like I said in my message, I didn't want comments about the midi realization, unless they can be implemented with Sibelius. Why did you think your comment about playing with the keyboard was too harsh? Maybe I don't understand you correctly, but you are commenting on the midi realization of this piece, right? I agree that I could get a way better result if I played all these parts in, then mixed in a sequencer - but I don't want to spend the time doing that. I am a composer, and want to spend as much time as I can composing. A real orchestra will play this piece at the university I'm at, so that will give me the best idea of what it really sounds like. [:)]

Interesting that you commented about the woodwinds sounding good, the woodwinds are MONO perf_legato velocity crossfade patches that I custom-made using the French Oboe and Opus 1. In fact, the whole piece is French Oboe and Opus 1. I ran out of RAM usage to do all the instruments with performance legato, escpecially the string divisi parts, so I just used sus samples.

thanks for your comments,
mvanbebber

[PaulR]

@mvanbebber said:

I agree that I could get a way better result if I played all these parts in, then mixed in a sequencer - but I don't want to spend the time doing that. I am a composer, and want to spend as much time as I can composing. A real orchestra will play this piece at the university I'm at, so that will give me the best idea of what it really sounds like. [:)]

Interesting that you commented about the woodwinds sounding good, the woodwinds are MONO perf_legato velocity crossfade patches that I custom-made using the French Oboe and Opus 1.
thanks for your comments,
mvanbebber

There's something I'm confused about here. First of all, are you a student at the university?

Second, surely it would be quicker to play individual parts in by playing them from a keyboard, and then editing. I assume you are putting in notes via a mouse? Is this how Sibelius works? And surely customizing samples takes just as much time as anything else?

The problem is, I think, although I am probably wrong, you will need to get better audio results from some of the instrumentation, thus enabling listeners to better appreciate the composition and orchestration, which is your prerequisite.

I occasionally write music and can't imagine putting notes into a computer via some sort of scoring software. As I say, maybe this the norm, but the time it must take in comparison as opposed to actually playing........

Anyway, good luck with your studies.

[mvanbebber]

Paul-
First, yes, I am a student at a University.
Secondly, I customize samples so I won't have to waste time tweaking them later in Sibelius.
Third, no, that's not how Sibelius works - there are a few ways to enter notes, but every way you do it has to be metrically perfect (as with any notation program). By the way, do ever actually have real people play the music you write? That is all that I intend to do with my compostions, have real people play them - I use VSL as a tool to let myself and the musicians have a general idea of what it will sound like when actually played. It is not intended to be the 'final product'.
Lastly, if you can't hear past the audio quality of this recording (which I think is decent), then I don't think a better realization will help you. My whole point in posting it here - in the COMPOSITION forum - was to get comments on composition and orchestration, not midi realization. I would have posted it in the Gigastudio or Mixing forum for that. [*-)]

Just forget about it, thanks anyways for the comments.

-mvanbebber

[evan evans]

This is so much reminiscent of LEONARD ROSENMAN it's startling. And I mean that as a big compliment.

If you haven't already, you ought to check out the score to EAST OF EDEN.

Interesting stuff. ... still listening now.

Evan Evans

[evan evans]

I don't care for the Organ, it does not match the orchestration-al size of the orchestra.

I very much like your use of the flutes and clarinet and pizzicato. The organ sounds terrible though.

But I think your orchestrations would work pretty well in real life. At least satisfactorily.

Evan EVans

[PaulR]

@mvanbebber said:

Paul-
First, yes, I am a student at a University.

Just forget about it, thanks anyways for the comments.

-mvanbebber

It was not my intention to irritate. Overall, I think it has very good merits as a composition and I would like to hear the finished article with real players when it's recorded.

How's that?

[gugliel]

Mike, I am downloading it to listen -- but already have a comment or two, based on friendliness because you have listened and commented on my examples:

you gave three odd warning signs in the posts above: (1) student, (2) only two weeks work, (3) (paraphrase) don't comment on how it sounds, just the music in it -- the combination effectively would warn me away from listening were it not for the residue of friendliness. Really, it is not easy to listen to a not-well-worked-out realization, translate that mentally to a score, then comment on the score. One help would be to offer to show the score, since it seems you are concerned with musical composition issues!

Having said that -- now I'll go listen and report back ....

Guglielmo

[gugliel]

... and reporting back after a couple of listens ...

the woodwind melodies are handled well, the tonal combinations work pretty well too. For improvement of an already good composition, perhaps a couple of ideas: there are many places where relatively static chords underly faster moving melodic fragments in imitation -- maybe too much of that. Stravinsky's Symphonies of Wind Instruments might be a good model to look at for many reasons, but especially the way everything is light-footed and fleet except where weight is needed. The final climax is probably too short, could build for another 15-30 seconds imo. The whole structural balance seems a little accidental to me, not sure in its pacing.

There was a place where things got dense in the lower registers -- that might be even more dense (TOO dense, in other words) with a real orchestra. Good luck. Post a recording of the orchestra, when done!

[mvanbebber]

@evanevans said:

I don't care for the Organ, it does not match the orchestration-al size of the orchestra.

I very much like your use of the flutes and clarinet and pizzicato. The organ sounds terrible though.
Evan EVans

Evan-
There is no organ. You are probably hearing the trombone/cello combination on the half note chords? These are just Opus 1 sus samples, maybe this is a produciton problem? All of this is French Oboe and Opus 1.
thanks for the compliments though, I will listen to East of Eden - I haven't heard it, or anything by Leonard Rosenman.
thanks again,
Mike

[JBacal]

Mike,

I like the interweaving of ultra modern extended harmonies and Bristish folk-stlye melodies. Nice.

--Jay

[evan evans]

Mike,

You are gonna flip then when you hear it! It's one of the most incredible scores of all time, and it is RIGHT up your alley!

Tell me what you think once you've heard it. Try the NONESUCH release called LEONARD ROSENMAN. You are going to love it!

I once heard a concert work of his on the radio and had to pull over and listen for an hour. Afterwards they announced that it was by film composer Leonard Rosenman. That's when I discovered him and that's when I dove deep. Although, what I didn't realize was that I already loved his score to STAR TREK IV: THE VOYAGE HOME (my favorite ST film).

Evan Evans

[mvanbebber]

@JBacal said:

Mike,

I like the interweaving of ultra modern extended harmonies and Bristish folk-stlye melodies. Nice.

--Jay

That really means alot coming from you. Thanks very much for the compliments!
-Mike

[mvanbebber]

@PaulR said:

It was not my intention to irritate. Overall, I think it has very good merits as a composition and I would like to hear the finished article with real players when it's recorded.

How's that?

Paul-
Thanks for that - I will post a recording when I get it. I wasn't 'fishing for compliments', just 'fishing for comments', and thank you for your comments.
-Mike