I look forward to hearing EWQLSO Legato strings. I guess i'm hoping they will be more to my taste than the VSL ensemble ones. I would love to know if VSL could to a better job of sampling the ensemble today than they could back in the day, and if so - will they do it.

As I have said countless times, Solo Strings just sound so superb, no sucking sound or anything. So I would love to see some of that magic in some new string recordings.

So EWQLSO is finally trying to catch up with a legato tool. Interesting - and rather late.

Also, the sound of those strings is hardly superior. Different, but not superior. A very worthwhile endeavor, but the musical consistency of VSL is a definite advantage.

A assume any iteration of an EPIC STRINGS would be a string orchestra of 80+ players, ie: 34 Violins, etc., etc., 12 Double Basses...

(Just in case Herb is listening)

Evan Evans

Oh my god [[:|]]

mathis,

Otherwise it wouldn't be EPIC! [:)]

Evan Evans

It would probably sound like a sine wave.

Well.. the strings dont have to be epic. Just revisited.

The reason I put a vote in for epic strings is that I feel chances of getting that are larger

actually, I think the biggest improvement for VSL would be a simpler way to find articulations. I have a lot of orchestral libraries and VIs, EWQLSO included, and VSL is by far the trickiest to find your way around.

so a user-friendliness enhancement would keep VSL ahead IMHO

just my two cents.

Nigel

@herb said:

Which competition? [H]

best
Herb

The competition is: will Symphonic Cube or QLSOP Pro be released first?
I support VSL!
ciao
Sergino

Why not go for the better one? [:D]

PolarBear

Re: epic strings

I'm still looking for good reference as to what you mean with this sound, as also requested already here:
http://community.vsl.co.at/viewtopic.php?t=3671&start=30

Perhaps someone can give me a tip?

I still cannot understand how mixing chamber strings with section strings can lead to "epic strings" sound. Chamber or solo instrtuments always add more definition and detail, which is IMHO quite oposite to smooth, lush sound of large strings section (like 18+16 Vn.I+II). So for "epic sound" we actually need less detail and more magic (and I don't mean EQ[:)]

Anyway, it's good to see emerging competition of giant orchestral libraries.
Exciting race [:D]

I wonder what Herb has in his sleev for Symphonic Cube?

Abel,

Exactly what I said in a similar post. Chamber strings will not increase the size of the strings, only their intimateness.

Evan Evans

P.S. EWQLSO uses QLegato. Apparently it is not purely a gimick, but it's creator also goes on record saying it is not using intervallic recording like VSL, and cannot compare. But it is somethign advanced and impressive, SO SAYS NICK.

@evanevans said:

EWQLSO uses QLegato. Apparently it is not purely a gimick, but it's creator also goes on record saying it is not using intervallic recording like VSL, and cannot compare. But it is somethign advanced and impressive, SO SAYS NICK.

Interesting, I guess that's some sort of real-time envelope manipulation + pitch bending then? I've often wondered if that would actually work. I still have to believe that the full recordings create a much better sound. Despite the occasional problems of mismatches, using true recordings has the advantage of using a wider variety of samples, and thus creates a more natural sounds (sometimes slight variations and flaws can work to your advantage).

You cannot do pitch bending to create legato! That is a synthesized grotesquerie because all components of the sound - fundamental, harmonics, transients, noise, everything - are "bent" at the same time. Utterly unlike legato acoustically or musically.

"QLegato" doesn't use intervals? What the hell does it use? Ironic, especially in light of GS3, with which you can create your own real legato instruments.

" 'QLegato' doesn't use intervals? What the hell does it use?"

Nick Phoenix answers this question... kind of... through the Northern Sounds forum:

"QLegato is not interval sampling as in VSL. It is a method of playing, sampling and editing that has never been done before. There is a different technique employed depending on the instrument. It produces attacks identical to those heard in the middle of a phrase. However there is no bending of the note. It sounds like 95% of the legato notes heard in the middle of a phrase. I sampled octave and other slides to take care of moments where a true legato slide is needed. In practice, it is very effective and works well for slow or fast material. And of course it will radically decrease the time needed to make smooth lines. In truth, it has sonic and practical advantages over interval sampling and it has disadvantages. It is not time dependent, so you won't here sucking or fakeness when you play fast, but you also don't get the automatic sliding of the note. You'll have to use specific articulations for that and they will never be as good as if you sampled all of the intervals. You will really like it. It's not just a gimmick. It also has the advantage of immaculate tuning, which is part of it's charm and a blessing for the editors and programmers."

It's interesting. Three libraries -- VSL, East West, and Garritan Strings -- each have their own approach to solving the riddle of sampled legato.

Garritan didn't solve the riddle. Garritan strings legato is artificial "masking samples" which translates as: they took some of the middle of the same notes and blurred them over the spot where you hear the gap between single note samples. It is artificial legato.

This Nick Phoenix statement is so vague it sounds like hype. The only way to do legato is by sampling the actual authentic transitions between notes - which is awesomely difficult in recording. And that is exactly why these people are not doing it. If they have some "better" way of doing it - fine. But it is a fake. It is not what violins and cellos and other actual acoustic instruments do.

William,

It is NOT the only way to do legato. Nick has another way altogether. Even bending notes IS a way of doing legato. There are other ways besides VSL to attempt legato.

I had to interject because your statements cannot be proven true. Just scientifically. Sure, I understand your personal sentiments though on the subject, and I perhaps agree.

[;)]

Evan Evans

More often than not, I find myself layering the QLSO 18 violin patches with my VSL Pro Edtion. The violin section of VSL is simply too small for anything approaching epic.

Sometimes this ends up giving things a synthy sound, sometimes it works OK. But it isn't ideal. Much better to have it all coming out of the same library.

Herb's suggesting of layering helps articulate sounds, but nothing replaces a larger section in the first place.

I notice this the most as I play in the higher registers.

That's because the tuning is TOO perfect.In the high registers of a real section the tuning can be ,albeit momentarily,quite wild,especially on bigger intervalic leaps.I think that's one secret of authenticity:to somehow "mess up" that perfection. One way would be to duplicate the line,place it lower in the mix and constantly adjust the tuning,exaggerating it at key moments,like those big interval leaps,ie;when you hit the target note there should sometimes be a moment of tuning chaos,before the section settles into the correct pitch.I've found this technique goes a long way towards added realism.

@tom@aerovons.com said:

Herb's suggesting of layering helps articulate sounds, but nothing replaces a larger section in the first place.

Uhm, just HOW huge is the regular 'Hollywood' orchestra when it comes to the amount of players? is it that much bigger? I think the sound is influenced more by how it was recorded. Just look at Epic Horns, they had to experiment with the players' positions a lot (and the mics too probably) to get 'the' sound they wanted.