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  4. Opening

  • Opening

    M
    M
    I didn´t post any music for a while, so I thought I post the opening of a film I´m currently pitching for. And please be very critical! I definitely want to win the pitch (and signs don´t look to bad), so please be picky! It should get as good as possible.
    Picturewise we see a (more or less) beautiful Lady riding her horse through very beautiful green english landscape.
    The sooner I get your comments the more useful they are! I´m already in a kind of timepressure.

    Technically it´s completely Opus1. It also runs completely in realtime on one computer with 1.5GB, as a reference. (Mixing is of course done in a next step.)
    I have new studio monitors and am in doubt of the balance in the low end. So if you please have a special ear to that aspect.

    It was kind of fun to compose that, so I hope you have fun listening to it.
    Here it is: EDIT: removed down.

    But don´t expect any Ligeti-stuff here [;)][/i]
  • W
    W
    Oh, no! No Ligetti? Damn!

    This sounds very good already. I don't have many criticisms but I'm trying to come up with them. The only thing I noticed not liking was the sound of the violins when it first got really loud. They sound electronic and thin there. Maybe because they get just as loud as the brass - which is impossible in real life. They are being cranked up. The brass maybe should obliterate them more right there.

    Also, should it start even more quietly? Then you would have more of a contrast to build from. Your image of the lady suggests something a little more delicate to begin with. Also that would make the climax even more impressive. Especially since this slowly builds up throughout the length of the piece.

    Just some possibilities. It sounds great though. Good luck on the job - I have a feeling you'll get it.
  • M
    M
    Thank you very much, Bill!

    Very interesting comments. That particular string passage: The string line is not intentionally rised in volume in mixing, it´s two times doubled in octaves in violins 2 and violas (Tchaikovski style) and the horns are playing the same pitch of the strings. I thought that this scenario could be realistic, that the horns will be partly covered. But since I still lack real-world experience I´m in doubt now. You really think also after knowing of this massive doubling that they are too loud?

    Yes, musically I agree with your desire of a more quiet beginning. But the picture demands epic size from the beginning on. But, of course, if I start that way, there will be no possibilty for development. Kind of dilemma there... I´m not utterly happy about that, it´s not meat nor fish... [*-)]

    Thanks again for your comments and your wishes!
    Bests,
    - M
  • G
    G
    Sounds good. A few minor observations since you ask that we be very critical: the parallelism is a little obtrusive for me at the beginning, and it shouldn't be necessary -- you could hold the bass note as a pedal under the second chord, perhaps, or return the oboe and its doubling(?) to the tonic on the third chord, rather than doubling the third in the bass.

    You already have a good combination of textures, but even that might be refined a little (you did ask for VERY criticial): the strings sound something like downbow marcato violins plus richochet or tremolo violas in unison on the fifth of the first chord, then again downbow marcato on the third -- might be a touch more effective and realistic both to slur down to the third and lighten it, more like the effect of the leading tone, tonic slur effect on the second beat of every measure.

    Working by ear here, so if this doesn't fit your concept just assume I'm listening to some other work!!
  • P
    P
    last edited
    last edited

    @mathis said:

    And please be very critical! I definitely want to win the pitch (and signs don´t look to bad), so please be picky! It should get as good as possible.


    Hi Mathis - Music Police here [:P]

    First of all - I like it. That's all that counts to me. I either don't like a piece or I do.

    Couple of things you may wish to think about, if only for a second.

    I don't understand what is basically a baroque sounding bass line underneath what is essentially a romantic style theme. It doesn't clash or anything like that, but it makes me slightly billious. That's just taste and nothing to worry about.

    Second, at around 52 secs I would tone down the timpani slightly, making it less obvious. Again, just taste.

    Third. The trumpets. They sound good enough, but I would also like to see what it sounds like if they were substituted for, say French Horns and any reajustments to the underlying orchestration that may be necessary. Just as a trial as it were.

    Very good and you may well get the gig. Good luck and...


    Bests
  • E
    E
    Listening ....

    Nice opening pattern. I would have liked to see the melodic ideas be more than 3 notes long and variations thereof. But it is done effectively.

    Transposing and orchestrating a 3 note idea 10 different ways is not as satisfying or as masterful as working really hard on something that is more elongated. Plus, longer ideas have a more unique "signature".

    But the orchestrations, mix, and variation is awesome. I would like to hear some more original substance.

    As practice, you can try to make two bar phrases into three bar phrases. This would FORCE you to come up with some more material.

    But as it stands, I think it's perfect. Great job Mathis!

    Yours, [;)]
    Evan Evans
  • E
    E
    Being able to stretch a single idea as much as you have is the more desirable route to take. Many beginners try "composing" their ways through the next bars. This leads to TOO MUCH MATERIAL.

    I'd rather have it like you have it here, where there is too little material and tons of variation and orchestration, than too much material. When there is too much material it confuses the audience because they cannot hold too many concepts in their head at once.

    Music composition is like a magic show. The composer says, "here's my rabbit", and then proceeds to wow the audience into turning it into a carrot, cutting it up, etc. But if the audience can't remember that it was a rabbit that you were using, than they might not get the point (like for instance they might be not impressed with you pulling a carrot out of your hat.)

    Think of music as a magic show, and you'll see what I mean. They can handle a little more than a rabbit, but not much. Maybe a LION and a sexy WOMAN. But save the sexy woman for last. [;)]

    Evan Evans
  • W
    W
    No Evan, I'd rather have the sexy woman right at the start, then have a second one appear later on. Forget the lion.
  • E
    E
    ROFL ... you mean SONATA form?

    LOL

    Evan Evans
  • M
    M
    I agree with Bill! [:D]
  • M
    M
    Thanks Bill, Gugliel, Paul and Evan for your great remarks! (and of course also your compliments.) You all made very good comments and I probably will work on every mentioned detail since I see the point in every one.
    Thanks again for listening! Much appreciated!
  • E
    E
    yeah, mathis, since we've worked together and I know some about your musical background, I sort of tailored my comments to fit you like a glove. In no way would I EVER say what I said to anoyone else. it would be downright rude. But, somehow I understood you might appreciate it.

    Anytime!

    Evan Evans
  • M
    M
    No problem, Evan. I don´t feel terribly original about that piece anyway. You know, to be totally honest, I applied your idea already beforehand: I had to stretch a one bar idea to the two bars you hear now... [:D]
    Some day I´ll be more original again...
  • M
    M
    Ok folks, to make it complete, here´s the refined version. Nothing spectular changed, so I don´t know if it´s worth downloading again, but mayber there are still some interested.
    http://www.audionomio.de/mp3/Opening_Mix4.mp3">http://www.audionomio.de/mp3/Opening_Mix4.mp3 (2 Min, 2.75MB)

    Changes:
    Bill: Thanks for pointing me to the violin thing. It made me change the dynamic behaviour. Opus1 lacks diminuendo samples so I mixed them in to get rid of the electronic sounding steadiness. It helped a lot! Also I lowered the strings a bit in volume which also made a more natural sound. As a result I ended editing all other diminuendi, which improved the whole mockup a lot. Thanks for that!

    Gugliel: I was again listening to your notion of parallelism and decided that it´s good for now. But thanks, next time I will take better care of these things.

    Paul: Thanks for the timpani critique. I changed them to medium hit ones and also lowered them a bit in volume. And, then I found out, they were at the wrong position anyway. Good policeman you are! [[;)]]
    Exchanging the trumpets is also a good idea since it gives the picture a slightly military touch. But decided to leave them for now. With the diminuendo changes they sound a little less obtrusive anyway.
    About a baroque bassline under romantic style.... I actually don´t care [:P]
    (What is "billious"?)

    Evan: I hope I´m able to deliver more original substance next time. This is good for now.

    It was very good to post it hear. It really made it better.
    Thanks again for your encouragement! I´ll keep you updated.
  • P
    P
    Yo Mathis,

    I guess I am too late with my request for a little bit more Spice Girls? [:D]

    Take care! Great stuff!

    Peter
  • W
    W
    Definitely worth downloading - this is about perfect. If they don't hire you - they're crazy!
  • M
    M
    Nice piece indeed Mathis, I can see the picture in my mind.

    I was just curious about that p cymbal swell at the beginning is that really from Opus ? I have the Pro Edition and I can't seem to find anything like that.

    thanks,

    =m=a=r=c=
  • M
    M
    Marc,
    you definitely should have it. The patch is simply called "cymbal". There are different onbes in this patch (at least in Opus1). Darker and lighter with single hits and different swells. This is just cut at the beginning.


    Thanks, Peter and Bill. Spice Girls come later.
  • M
    M
    Ok, to complete the story: I didn´t get the job. Apparently the winner was matching better the layouts from the editing room.
    Not a very seldom experience, I guess. Probably I have to get used to this.
  • P
    P
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    @mathis said:

    Ok, to complete the story: I didn´t get the job. Apparently the winner was matching better the layouts from the editing room.
    Not a very seldom experience, I guess. Probably I have to get used to this.


    Not to worry Mathis. And no, you don't have to get used to it! That's the last thing you want to do!
  • PaulP Paul moved this topic from Orchestration & Composition on