Didn't Miles Davis do a score for a Louis Malle film? Anybody heard it?

What about potentially great movies ruined by bad music? I think "Amistad" was spoiled by a bad score. Whenever Anthony Hopkins appears on screen the composer (John Williams?) switches on this limp default pseudo-Copland music. It's so clunky and naff and, ultimately, distracting - in a serious film about an incredibly serious subject.

There have been rumours for some time that Chris Cunningham is making a movie of "Neuromancer" with a score by Aphex Twin. I've no idea if it's true, but I hope it is. I could imagine that combination really shaking up all our ideas about film music.

Laters

Guy

@William said:

Not to mention the more disturbed major 7 with a minor triad - as in Vertigo.

This is the very chord I was referring too in Vertigo (i.e. the use of the interval of the major 7th regardless of other voices, mode etc.)

Here's a question for you William (because I stated that Goldsmith used the major 7th for power and drama instead of sweetness): Didn't Herrmann precede him in that, in films like Jason and the Argonauts? Using big huge Major 7ths for dramatic purposes as opposed to say Mahlers very sweet use of it in the Adagio of his 5th?

You're the expert here. I'm very curious because I think it's a real innovation.

Dave Connor

I don't know if I'm an expert. Evan is an expert on Herrmann, but I'm merely an obsessive-compulsive. I think too much about his music and probably should be medicated.

However you are right that Herrmann used this for dramatic effect before any other film composer - the score I've refered to before is "Hangover Square" which is one of the greatest uses of music and film together in Hollywood history. The music is completely incorporated into not only the plot but also the entire psychology of the main character. And this has the prominent, extremely dramatic use of minor triad with major 7th in the piano concerto being written in the story. It is interesting how this chord sounds "wrong" (in being an unresolved dissonance in the minor) by way of an AUGMENTED interval - in effect, an augmented traid is formed above the minor third. But having the leading tone in this position suggests it is trying to go somewhere but can't. It is maybe impossible to put into words - it simply has to be heard in the music - and yet this corresponds in an eerie way to what is happening in the character's mind. Something like the way the repeated arpeggios on the ma7 minor triad in "Vertigo" echo the unresolved psychological tension and swirling dizziness of the story.

@Guy Sigsworth said:

Didn't Miles Davis do a score for a Louis Malle film? Anybody heard it?

ascenseur pour l'échafaud (lift to the scaffold)

Great movie with great music! It wasn´t exactly a score in the narrow sense of score-paper. They improvised to the film. I loved it.
Which brings me to the thought that I actually remember non-orchestral filmmusic much more intense and defined than orchestral one. Interesting thought....

Have you seen "Mo Better Blues"? It has the best miming by actors of musicians' performances ever. Washington and Snipes never really put a breath or a finger out of place, which is amazing when you consider they're miming jazz improvisations. Most actors' recreations of musicians are terrible. I think "toutes les matins du monde" has some pretty good fake viola da gamba playing...

So everyone, tell us your best and worst of actors acting musicians.

Guy

@Guy Sigsworth said:

I think "toutes les matins du monde" has some pretty good fake viola da gamba playing...


Guy

And not only that, it's a great film!

Herrmann's use of the 7th was not from a "7th" perspective. He was more interested in multimelodic movement. Or a kind of 4-part melody if you will. PSYCHO is a great example of this. VERTIGO, and many of his scores.

But mostly, his use of what jazzers call the 7th was never limited simple iterations of harmonies with it attached. No, instead his use was extremely complex.

To find a great example of how he used his, multimelodic technique, checkout the main title to CAPE FEAR.

Evan Evans

Yes, he used the 7th as a prominent part of many melodies. I was just listening to "Ghost and Mrs. Muir" - another example. Or the "book people" melody at the end of "Fahrenheit 451." The nostalgic waltz that was replaying in various forms all throughout his career always featured it as well.

Philip Glass has to be the most recognizable composer alive, simply because his style is so unique. I hear people copying Glass a lot now, however, which has more than once confused me. They usually only copy him so far, then throw in some things that Glass would never do.

Interesting thread. I hear a lot of film music in which I instantly recognize the composer, even if I don't always know the name. I'll just know that he's the one who composed such-and-such, and further research usually bears me out. Film music has changed so much since Jerry Goldsmith's era. It was about the time that ET came out (the movie, not Entertainment Tonight) that it seemed Hollywood had developed a new style, and for a while it seemed that many composers used the same style and even quoted each other. It is becoming more diverse again, but for some time it seemed quite barren, creatively speaking, as if audiences were expecting a certain sound and would walk out if they didn't get it. I tend to generalize, but I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about, even if it isn't as pervasive as I make it sound.

By the way, this is my first post in this forum. The topic was interesting, so I joined.

Shooshie

@Shooshie said:

Philip Glass has to be the most recognizable composer alive, simply because his style is so unique. I hear people copying Glass a lot now, however, which has more than once confused me. They usually only copy him so far, then throw in some things that Glass would never do.

By the way, this is my first post in this forum. The topic was interesting, so I joined.

Shooshie

Always nice to meet someone from Texas and welcome to you. Yeah, Philip Glass is certainly unique.